Reply to: Students

[RetSet]

Students need a goal. At the moment housing is way too expensive. Why should the young bother working?

make mortgage costs non tax deductible on BTL. And tax rental income.

And if property is financed by means other than BTL e.g. commercial loans? And rental income is already taxed.

[BrilloPad]

Students need a goal. At the moment housing is way too expensive. Why should the young bother working?

make mortgage costs non tax deductible on BTL. And tax rental income.

[xoggoth]

In some useful courses, eg medicine, there is serious shortage of places and even those with good A levels cannot get a place.

Rather agree with eek and Sue Ellen that a bit more government supply and control of such things might not be a bad idea. Not a socialist but think that sometimes just leaving everything to the free market in the hope that a pursuit of profit will deliver the right ends is naive.

[xoggoth]

The other one was 6 months uni 6 months work.

I did one of those. 6 months in a drug company and 6 at a tyre factory. Probably quite useful experience, I learnt not to annoy people by singing all the time.

[scooterscot]

What loans?

[VectraMan]

They used to have degree courses called sandwich degrees, which were similar to what you describe. Maybe these days there is less assurance that the students could find a job for the "sandwich year".

Completely different, but okay.

[SueEllen]

Isn't that the circular argument to parents not asking why on earth are you doing that degree. What on earth will you do with it...

It depends on the parents.

Ask anyone from certain immigrant backgrounds over 35 what would have happened if they said they were going to do a Drama degree.

[SueEllen]

They used to have degree courses called sandwich degrees, which were similar to what you describe. Maybe these days there is less assurance that the students could find a job for the "sandwich year".

Yep - all students with their heads screwed on try and do sandwich degrees now.

I know people who couldn't get promoted without a degree so some of them did Masters degrees to get around it.

[OwlHoot]

It doesn't need to necessarily be part time education. I'm certain I learned more in my first year of work than I did in the preceeding three years of university, so why couldn't my first 3 years of work (i.e. from 18) have counted as a degree? ...

They used to have degree courses called sandwich degrees, which were similar to what you describe. Maybe these days there is less assurance that the students could find a job for the "sandwich year".

[eek]

That's a plus point to doing it in the workplace. The fact there is a workplace means that there must be some real world relevance, and some demand. If somebody gets a job writing Klingon poetry, and can demonstrate that after three years their expertise is what would be expected of degree level, then they get a degree. The university or government doesn't need to decide to support klingon poetry.

Isn't that the circular argument to parents not asking why on earth are you doing that degree. What on earth will you do with it...

Its probably worth explaining how the real world works for people.

Good GCSEs allow you to do A levels and help you get into a better university
Good A levels let you get into University (they also check your GCSE results)
Good degree gets you on a good graduate scheme (now you GCSE results are worthless).

Your next job is dependent on your previous job and your degree

From then on its totally dependent on your last 2 jobs.....

Once most people hit 30 they rarely move jobs unless forced to.... As such most parents are totally and utterly unable to explain in simple words how the world works...

[VectraMan]

How do the universities/government decide what degrees and qualifications are directly relevant and what aren't?

That's a plus point to doing it in the workplace. The fact there is a workplace means that there must be some real world relevance, and some demand. If somebody gets a job writing Klingon poetry, and can demonstrate that after three years their expertise is what would be expected of degree level, then they get a degree. The university or government doesn't need to decide to support klingon poetry.

[eek]

It doesn't need to necessarily be part time education. I'm certain I learned more in my first year of work than I did in the preceeding three years of university, so why couldn't my first 3 years of work (i.e. from 18) have counted as a degree? Obviously you'd need some kind of assessment from a university, like exams, and a certain amount of co-operation with employers to make sure the work you were doing was of the required level, but if you're learning in your job, as you always do with something technical, and it's sophisticated enough, why bother ever going to a classroom?

That is called an apprenticeship and if you pick a good one you will walk out with both a degree, some cash (or at least less debt) and worthwhile work experience. If anyone has an 18 year old in West Yorkshire interested in IT, the one the current clientco does would be far better than any degree....

[SueEllen]

It doesn't need to necessarily be part time education. I'm certain I learned more in my first year of work than I did in the preceeding three years of university, so why couldn't my first 3 years of work (i.e. from 18) have counted as a degree? Obviously you'd need some kind of assessment from a university, like exams, and a certain amount of co-operation with employers to make sure the work you were doing was of the required level, but if you're learning in your job, as you always do with something technical, and it's sophisticated enough, why bother ever going to a classroom?

Some people do degrees directly relevant to their work.

My postgraduate studies where (and are) and I studied with undergraduates whose degrees were as the industries they were in directly help evolve the degree timetable.

How do the universities/government decide what degrees and qualifications are directly relevant and what aren't?

[SueEllen]

FTFY. Looking at Newcastle University Social Sciences courses don't require labs or expensive training so are far more profitable to run.

Cheaper to get home and EU students in but not lucrative enough for getting the money spinning foreign students in.

There are some science and engineering courses that are about 50% foreign non-EU students particularly at the postgraduate level.

[VectraMan]

There are ways to educate and train most people without them being in full time education until their early 20s and so part time education might be part of the solution....

It doesn't need to necessarily be part time education. I'm certain I learned more in my first year of work than I did in the preceeding three years of university, so why couldn't my first 3 years of work (i.e. from 18) have counted as a degree? Obviously you'd need some kind of assessment from a university, like exams, and a certain amount of co-operation with employers to make sure the work you were doing was of the required level, but if you're learning in your job, as you always do with something technical, and it's sophisticated enough, why bother ever going to a classroom?