Reply to: GP service, lazy bastards

[doodab]

Perhaps they managed to make their health service more efficient

I think they currently spend less than us and have better life expectancy, so it looks like they did.

[woohoo]

It's popularly attributed to the "Mediterranean diet"

That of course is something else that's often overlooked. There is a lot more to public health than simply treating people once they are ill. Prevention is better than cure and all that.

well from what I've read, Italy modelled it's health service on the NHS but invested a whole load more cash in it. It's only recently that we have caught up. Perhaps they managed to make their health service more efficient

[doodab]

Anyway ignore Germany, Italy are way ahead of us, could it be because their health service brings all the boys to yard, damn right its better than yours. *cant stop singing this.

It's popularly attributed to the "Mediterranean diet"

That of course is something else that's often overlooked. There is a lot more to public health than simply treating people once they are ill. Prevention is better than cure and all that.

[scooterscot]

Anyway ignore Germany, Italy are way ahead of us, could it be because their health service brings all the boys to yard, damn right its better than yours. *cant stop singing this.

Or because they value a healthy lifestyle.

[scooterscot]

I'm working.

Aaaaway.

[woohoo]

Compare your country by OECD

You might need to dial the countries in yourself.

well that was interesting, I've now read several sources that report different information.

Anyway ignore Germany, Italy are way ahead of us, could it be because their health service brings all the boys to yard, damn right its better than yours. *cant stop singing this.

[scooterscot]

I didn't say it did, I was pointing out the flaw in your argument. You said the NHS couldn't be considered efficient if its goal was keeping people healthy, but in general people are healthy and live longer than they used to.

Let's be clear. The primary business of the NHS is not to make people healthy.

People in the UK go to hospital to die.

[doodab]

You're awfully quiet since ma post about how you work longer hours for your extra life.

I'm working.

[scooterscot]

For the (non-ultrasound) scans I have had as an inpatient I've usually gone to the A&E machines which are free and running 24x7. The outpatient scanning departments tend to be 9-5 monday-friday operations.

I think a bigger problem might be actually finding the staff, rather than what they cost. Every ward I've been on has had several nurses and healthcare assistants from the "staff bank" working extra shifts cos they just don't have the people full time.

You're awfully quiet since ma post about how you work longer hours for your extra life.

[d000hg]

Just because our life expectancy increases does not mean the NHS/GP service is efficient.

I didn't say it did, I was pointing out the flaw in your argument. You said the NHS couldn't be considered efficient if its goal was keeping people healthy, but in general people are healthy and live longer than they used to.

[doodab]

well I suspect there is plenty of slack with the machines, I have never been invited in the evenings or weekends. Staffing costs I suspect are actually a very small part of the overall.

For the (non-ultrasound) scans I have had as an inpatient I've usually gone to the A&E machines which are free and running 24x7. The outpatient scanning departments tend to be 9-5 monday-friday operations.

I think a bigger problem might be actually finding the staff, rather than what they cost. Every ward I've been on has had several nurses and healthcare assistants from the "staff bank" working extra shifts cos they just don't have the people full time.

[doodab]

A link would be good. I looked at life expectancy on wiki which had a number of sources and UK was behind Germany. The link on the OECD shows that we are behind Germany.

Compare your country by OECD

You might need to dial the countries in yourself.

[doodab]

But isn't it a bit like programming, in that if you have to fix a bug in something you've just been working on it's a lot easier than fixing a bug in something you did 6 months ago? If patients are in the system for a year because of the delays, doctors must have 100s of patients on the go. It would be much more efficient if doctors were able to focus on a much smaller number of patients,as each one would be sorted out in a couple weeks.

I don't know how much that is true. Certainly initial referrals and diagnoses and starting of treatment could be done quicker in a lot of cases but once you're in the system looking at it more often generally won't make it get better any faster. Many health conditions require long term follow-up care, or like mine are simply a case of managing the symptoms until the patient finally keels over, and operations need a certain amount of recovery time and so on.

[woohoo]

According to the OECD the UK has a longer life expectancy than Germany both overall and for men, but lower for women, and Germany spends more per patient per year and more as a %age of GDP to boot.

You have a funny idea of what efficient means.

A link would be good. I looked at life expectancy on wiki which had a number of sources and UK was behind Germany. The link on the OECD shows that we are behind Germany.

[scooterscot]

Or just pay for healthcare. I wonder if I should have offered cash when I was first referred.

That is the correct answer.