Reply to: Do people have a right to believe any old bollocks?

[Old Greg]

Is that a woodland nymph? Or a garden fairy?

MF has implied that he stole underwear out off my washing line if that counts.

[d000hg]

The clue that showed EO's (a top 5 CUK cretin) post was not worth responding to was in the words "arboreal deities".

Is that a woodland nymph? Or a garden fairy?

[MyUserName]

People have a right to believe anything they want without needing to explain and justify it.

If they want their beliefs to effect other people then they should be ready to be asked to justify those beliefs, whatever they are.

[sasguru]

How are you defining "no brain washing"? Do parents who don't really GAS about religion count as brain-washing their kids? What about those who actively try to let their kids make up their own minds - is that brainwashing them into being open?

The clue that showed EO's (a top 5 CUK cretin) post was not worth responding to was in the words "arboreal deities".

[d000hg]

But you are wrong. read the argument again and show me the kids that are worhipping arboreal deities.
Show me Christian kids that start to worship the great God Bollockoff. They dont. They are brain washed, some of them rebel , some flip to another form of brain washing. None of them flip to NO brain washing

How are you defining "no brain washing"? Do parents who don't really GAS about religion count as brain-washing their kids? What about those who actively try to let their kids make up their own minds - is that brainwashing them into being open?

[SpontaneousOrder]

People have any right they could possibly think of that isn't self contradictory, and doesn't contradict any other valid right.

That's all you need to know.

[NotAllThere]

Just leave everyone else alone. And don't be cruel to innocent animals. You know who you are.

Can I be cruel to guilty animals then?

[Flashman]

Just leave everyone else alone. And don't be cruel to innocent animals. You know who you are.

[NotAllThere]

So, we're agreed then, everything really is bollocks.

Time to go back to bed...

I find your point of view somewhat testicular.

[doodab]

So, we're agreed then, everything really is bollocks.

Time to go back to bed...

[NotAllThere]

....For me, a more interesting question is do we have to respect their beliefs and tippy toe around so as not to cause offence? We might take the P out of believers in the FSM or Socialism or Capitalism or Jedi-ism, but we 're not allowed to do the same to Christian...

You are allowed to take the piss out of Christians. Scientologists might try to sue you, and other religions may take more extreme approaches, but by and large, with Christians, you're safe.

Show me Atheist kids that start to worship the great Dawkins. They dont. They are brain washed, some of them rebel , some flip to another form of brain washing. None of them flip to NO brain washing

FTFY

We're all brainwashed to some extent, even you with your filthy mind. As the great Cliff said: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdzR-VX2Wrc

[Zero Liability]

Certainly, as long as they don't try force their beliefs upon me!

[EternalOptimist]

You do however see many kids raised as Christians/Muslims "convert" to atheism when they get older, and kids raised as atheists converting to religion. And those raised in one religion converting to another. Even in places where there is definitely a "right" religion to be, this happens - where converting will mean getting kicked out of your home and shunned by your family.

I don't really consider "christian/muslim/atheist kids" to be those religions until they make a personal decision - it's not the same as supporting the same football team as your dad.

But you are wrong. read the argument again and show me the kids that are worhipping arboreal deities.
Show me Christian kids that start to worship the great God Bollockoff. They dont. They are brain washed, some of them rebel , some flip to another form of brain washing. None of them flip to NO brain washing

[d000hg]

People are easily brain washed, thats a fact. programmed. first by their parents, then by their peers and then by themselves. After all, you dont see many christian kids growing up in a moslem household in Pakistan or moslem kids in Christian housholds in the bible belt.

You do however see many kids raised as Christians/Muslims "convert" to atheism when they get older, and kids raised as atheists converting to religion. And those raised in one religion converting to another. Even in places where there is definitely a "right" religion to be, this happens - where converting will mean getting kicked out of your home and shunned by your family.

I don't really consider "christian/muslim/atheist kids" to be those religions until they make a personal decision - it's not the same as supporting the same football team as your dad.

[SueEllen]

Good points, but probably reflecting that I made my point badly.

No, the thing I find irksome is when people state that they have a right to have their beliefs respected and that therefore I must respect [i.e. not criticise] their beliefs even if I disagree with them.

I always ask them something like "That the Dutch Reformed Church in South Africa had a legitimate explanation for apartheid so if your religion is doing something that degrades and causes suffering to a whole section of humanity I shouldn't point that out to you?"

Anyway lots of the arguments with religious people tend to be on an aspect of culture that has evolved around their particular sect/denomination/group in a particular country, not their religion as written down in the relevant holy book(s).