Reply to: Well that will upset the racists

[Zero Liability]

@MUN think you should let your kid decide for itself, when it's old enough, whether it wants to be religious. I mean it's your kid in the end, but a lot of religion is about compartmentalising mythology (ironically, in contradistinction to medieval catholicism, e.g. scholasticism, which had much more emphasis on attempting to reconcile faith with reason), to preserve it from saner beliefs, and I don't think this does the development of her reasoning faculties any good. If she later figures out this is all a load of tosh, how will she feel about one of her parents (or their parents) insisting she believes in it? The threat of being tortured in hell if one does not believe is, IMO, abusive behaviour. So I think you're right to be concerned with what it could involve later down the line.

Is that where you post when you are bored of CUK?

Oh no, aside from when one tries to troll them with things like this, they are far milder mannered than the crowd here.

[NotAllThere]

...We also read the bible stories each night but we do not read actual ones from the OT or anything like that...

Quite right. It's full of sex and violence and many parts are not suitable for children at all - which I would have thought would make it more popular... When Channel 5 broadcast "The Bible" miniseries, they had to prefix it with a warning!

[Ticktock]

ROFL - I am sure they would love that. Unfortunately any bit of the bible which does not say what they want it to say is being taken out of context and I am considered to be being pedantic and arguing over semantics.

Fine, then say it to your wife, and tell he she must submit to you and support you when you tell her family to **** off, or else she is sinning. She can chose between God and her family. If she chooses famliy then you can tell her to knock the religious bit on the head. If she chooses God then you can tell the family to **** off.

[Mich the Tester]

We had a hilarious conversation with my daughter:

Mini MUN:"Daddy, I want to make you dead"
MUN:"Erm ... why?"
Mini MUN: "Because then you will be heaven, in paradise"
MUN:"Erm ... Mrs MUN? Any input here?"
Mrs MUN: "This life is a gift baby, we can't waste it"
Mini MUN: "Why? Heaven is much better than this and we will all be together there anyway"

Heavy!

[MyUserName]

Which ever school you choose I would suggest you don't help with the English homework.

This is no time to be pedantic and argue over semantics!!

[MyUserName]

That's completely out of order.

What branch of Christianity are they? If they are one of the more sane branches and you have a branch of that church locally it may be worth you and your wife going and talking to the vicar, minister or whatever to see what their view is on that is. Most churches have Sunday schools for the kids plus other groups and do their brain washing into religion in a nice way.

I think they are Baptists(?) but the church generally is not an aggressive one. It is a happy clappy one which has a good social network and really does help people. They go to their groups and get the softly softly approach each week, I do not mind that it does not really do much harm. We also read the bible stories each night but we do not read actual ones from the OT or anything like that - just the children's ones and we dwell on everything in a nice way ("isn't God kind to save Noah and his family" rather than "isn't God a butcher to murder millions of innocent babies and animals").

We had a hilarious conversation with my daughter:

Mini MUN:"Daddy, I want to make you dead"
MUN:"Erm ... why?"
Mini MUN: "Because then you will be heaven, in paradise"
MUN:"Erm ... Mrs MUN? Any input here?"
Mrs MUN: "This life is a gift baby, we can't waste it"
Mini MUN: "Why? Heaven is much better than this and we will all be together there anyway"

Or else you simply tell them "God teaches us that the husband is the head of the family and it is a sin to try to subvert his authority, now **** off."

ROFL - I am sure they would love that. Unfortunately any bit of the bible which does not say what they want it to say is being taken out of context and I am considered to be being pedantic and arguing over semantics.

[northernladuk]

My wife is keen for her to be raised as a Christian and I am actually indifferent. I have no issues with it. The problem is that when they threaten her with being tortured in hell if she does not belief everything - like in this case creationism -.

Which ever school you choose I would suggest you don't help with the English homework.

[Ticktock]

That's completely out of order.

What branch of Christianity are they? If they are one of the more sane branches and you have a branch of that church locally it may be worth you and your wife going and talking to the vicar, minister or whatever to see what their view is on that is. Most churches have Sunday schools for the kids plus other groups and do their brain washing into religion in a nice way.

Or else you simply tell them "God teaches us that the husband is the head of the family and it is a sin to try to subvert his authority, now **** off."

[SueEllen]

My wife is keen for her to be raised as a Christian and I am actually indifferent. I have no issues with it. The problem is that when they threaten her with being tortured in hell if she does not belief everything.

That's completely out of order.

What branch of Christianity are they? If they are one of the more sane branches and you have a branch of that church locally it may be worth you and your wife going and talking to the vicar, minister or whatever to see what their view is on that is. Most churches have Sunday schools for the kids plus other groups and do their brain washing into religion in a nice way.

[MyUserName]

It seems they're struggling with the word 'semantics' as well! Perchance that on the occasion of a birthday you might visit a fine purveyor of books and acquire a good quality dictionary for their family bookshelf?

Unless it tells them what they want it to it will be dismissed as being pedantic and arguing over semantics.

[Mich the Tester]

They intentionally conflate the word theory and mix the scientific definition of theory (as used for gravity, evolution etc.) with the common use of the word (as they use for creationism). When I point this out I am accuse of being pedantic, arguing over semantics etc.

It seems they're struggling with the word 'semantics' as well! Perchance that on the occasion of a birthday you might visit a fine purveyor of books and acquire a good quality dictionary for their family bookshelf?

[MyUserName]

Rather you than me; I suppose you give your daughter a more rational view when she's back home? Mind you, she's 5; how is she supposed to work out which message to believe?

I struggle slightly with it. The nursery version of Christianity is handy as it keeps her happy and she does not worry about people dying etc. (She is autistic as well as 5 so when she gets hooked on something it is stuck in there!).

My wife is keen for her to be raised as a Christian and I am actually indifferent. I have no issues with it. The problem is that when they threaten her with being tortured in hell if she does not belief everything - like in this case creationism - then she might not be able to make clear judgements about things when she gets older. It is not the same as Father Christmas or the Tooth Fairy, no one would be allowed to scare her into believing in them but with religion, apparently, it is okay.

Unlike creationism that doesn't even qualify as a theory. Of course Quantum Electrodynamics and Relativity are both discounted by lidl scientists as only theories. But without them, you wouldn't have SatNav.

They intentionally conflate the word theory and mix the scientific definition of theory (as used for gravity, evolution etc.) with the common use of the word (as they use for creationism). When I point this out I am accuse of being pedantic, arguing over semantics etc.

[Mich the Tester]

Unlike creationism that doesn't even qualify as a theory. Of course Quantum Electrodynamics and Relativity are both discounted by lidl scientists as only theories. But without them, you wouldn't have SatNav.

Some people who dismiss ideas as 'theories' need to find out what a 'theory' actually is, especially regarding its relation to a hypothesis.

[Mich the Tester]

Basically to 'keep the peace'.

Mrs MUN and her family are very close and she is caught between the two worlds and does not want to upset her parents and one of her brothers (who are, to be fair, very nice people other than this).

Arguing with them is basically pointless because they just do not want to hear that they might be wrong so all that happens is everyone gets stressed and Mrs MUN gets very upset.

Rather you than me; I suppose you give your daughter a more rational view when she's back home? Mind you, she's 5; how is she supposed to work out which message to believe?

[NotAllThere]

Allow me to introduce you to some of my creationist in-laws ... although to be fair they are not racist but they do insist that the theory of evolution is wrong and that most scientists discount it as 'only a theory'.

Unlike creationism that doesn't even qualify as a theory. Of course Quantum Electrodynamics and Relativity are both discounted by lidl scientists as only theories. But without them, you wouldn't have SatNav.