Liars, and the lying liars who lie (yep, the Mail again!)

[xoggoth]

I still don't follow how anyone can think the DM is more anti-EU than The Daily Express.

PS Gordon Bennet! What have they done to The Guardian?

[darmstadt]

Don't you just love the Mail:

Anti-EU editor pockets European subsidies |

Langwell Estate | United Kingdom | FarmSubsidy.org

[Mich the Tester]

...the last government's failure to apply interim controls that created this concern. If they had, relatively few Eastern Europeans would have come to the UK, they would have had a wider choice and most would have preferred Germany. Public opinion would have been far more in favour of the EU than it now is.

The desirable aim of a united Europe is being put at risk by the idealists who are determined to rush it through and ignore the practical consequences for ordinary people.

It's happening again; I agree with you there.

I'm in favour of much more migration freedom, but that doesn't mean I want it to happen right now, with no gradual movement towards more freedom and no sensitivity toward local needs.

That's what annoys me sometimes with demonstrators using the 'what do we want- something or other, when do we want it - now' cliché; they show no understanding of the impact that some change has on other people and no desire to compromise.

[xoggoth]

Nothing excuses a paper falsifying facts but then, given what happened on Polish immigration, it is understandable that people feared the worst.

Some love to such blame such fears on anti-immigrant speeches but they are not the original causes. It was the last government's failure to apply interim controls that created this concern. If they had, relatively few Eastern Europeans would have come to the UK, they would have had a wider choice and most would have preferred Germany. UK public opinion would have been far more in favour of the EU than it now is.

The desirable aim of a united Europe is being put at risk by the idealists who are determined to rush it through and ignore the practical consequences for ordinary people.

[Platypus]

It would be nice if someone could make a case out of this for the relevant people to be charged with incitement towards racial hatred...

^ +1

[Mich the Tester]

Yes. And I wish they didn't It makes me rather sad. But then again you have to remember that (so I am told) people buy the newspaper that accords with their views. So perhaps you can't really blame the DM? Although there must be positive reinforcement when a DM reader reads what they suspected all along is happening but worse, which makes them angrier, which makes them believe the DM all the more.

It's called 'marketing' and I think it is becoming a greater political force than conservatism, liberalism, socialism or any of the other isms. Look at Europe's populist parties; UKIP, Wilders 'Freedom Party', the Front National, Jobbik and so on. They happily dump any kind of idealism they may have had, even if it's a twisted idealism, just to grab votes, because their market research tells them what their target market will support. Geert Wilders is a great example; he was a free market liberal, almost libertarian who called fr the benefits system to be dramatically reduced, more personal liberty and more trade freedom until he set up on his own after falling out with his party over Turkish entry to the EU. Since then he's become a defender of the welfare state, supports trade restrictions and supports more repressive laws while continually stoking prejudice and hatred against muslims first, then Greeks, then the EU, and now Bulgarians and Romanians, and of course 'lefties' and moderates. People who've worked with him say he doesn't even belive in a lot of that, but does it to get the votes from his target market. But people don't see through it, and their chosen papers continually repeat the message, reinforcing their prejudices and never challenge their opinions, for one simple reason; they sell papers. The populists sell something to vote for, the papers sell papers and adverts and both do it by researching their market and giving people what they want.

[darmstadt]

It would be nice if someone could make a case out of this for the relevant people to be charged with incitement towards racial hatred...

[Platypus]

It'd be funny if so many didn't buy into it.

Yes. And I wish they didn't It makes me rather sad. But then again you have to remember that (so I am told) people buy the newspaper that accords with their views. So perhaps you can't really blame the DM? Although there must be positive reinforcement when a DM reader reads what they suspected all along is happening but worse, which makes them angrier, which makes them believe the DM all the more.

[vwdan]

It'd be funny if so many didn't buy into it.

[Mich the Tester]

Quite interesting, and will be keeping an eye out for the outcome: 13 reasons why I am taking the Daily Mail to the Press Complaints Commission | British InfluenceBritish Influence

If the Wail win, they will announce this triumphantly. If they lose, they will announce that Brussels has sent stormtroopers to the Press Complaints Commission to force them to take away freedom of speech and that the Wail is the great campaigner for liberty in Britain.

You don't really think objective, observable facts are important do you?

[darmstadt]

Quite interesting, and will be keeping an eye out for the outcome: 13 reasons why I am taking the Daily Mail to the Press Complaints Commission | British InfluenceBritish Influence