Reply to: Blimey! This is scary...

[Zero Liability]

And you may wait forever for one. Also, dental cash plans are pretty good value for money if one actually uses them. I have pretty weak teeth (too many acids when I was younger) and I scarcely spend more than £200 on them per year, including the odd filling now and then.

[SpontaneousOrder]

I can't see what bringing lung disease has to do with what I have said? A non-sequitur (sorry, long, foreign word) since the NHS service covers that...?

NHS dentists are available, even if there is a postcode lottery. I know that in "my" town, there are two NHS dentists and they battled to fill their lists. The pubs in town never battle to fill up with those too poor to afford dental care, but who would rather spunk their (hard-earned benefits) money up the beer and fag wall.

I am not going to get into a debate about this, either, since it is pointless. I feel the way that I feel, and clearly, you and others have different opinions. That is great and one of the wonderful things about living in the UK - freedom of expression, and partly one of the reasons I came to live here.

I have spent my whole life paying for dental care and I have no intention of stopping.

NHS dentists aren''t that much cheaper.

[TykeMerc]

I am saying that the NHS is cost effective compared to the US - I don;t know what the costs are like in comparable Western European countries. Good is a different issue, and low costs in the NHS are reflected by low nurse to patient ratios which impacts on nursing care and helping with eating / washing etc.

Pretty scary when you think about it really.

I knew that US healthcare was expensive, just hadn't realised how expensive in context.

[mudskipper]

I had a private op with anaesthetist, consultant and overnight stay in hospital. IIRC, the bill was about 8K (footed by BUPA) - although about 10 years ago. $55K does seem excessive.

More recently had a gastroscopy - surprised to find that was < £300 with sedation and follow up appointment.

[darmstadt]

When done privately my monthly treatment cost approx 11k.

9k for the drugs; 2k for the hotel/nursing services. It'snow done on the NHS, drug cost is the same.

I understand from a support group that the equivalent cost in the USA is around $75k. It's a big difference.

I imagine a large chunk of it is insurance related in the provision of the care.

Last year I got taken to hospital in an ambulance, lots of x-rays, taken by ambulance twice to another hospital to have someone stick something up my nose plus 2 nights in bed with added drugs. I was expecting a rather large bill so was pleasantly surprised to only have to pay €20 (although the crown for the front tooth cost me over €300!)

[Scruff]

oh another one who wants to blame the victim. nice to see an armchair dentist. You used long words.

There are many causes for bad teeth including poor health & genetic reasons.

£46 might not be much for you but for many its a day or two's wages.

£214 for bridge or crown is a weeks wages for some.

one assumes if you have lung disease you will pay because all lung problems must be the result of smoking?

I can't see what bringing lung disease has to do with what I have said? A non-sequitur (sorry, long, foreign word) since the NHS service covers that...?

NHS dentists are available, even if there is a postcode lottery. I know that in "my" town, there are two NHS dentists and they battled to fill their lists. The pubs in town never battle to fill up with those too poor to afford dental care, but who would rather spunk their (hard-earned benefits) money up the beer and fag wall.

I am not going to get into a debate about this, either, since it is pointless. I feel the way that I feel, and clearly, you and others have different opinions. That is great and one of the wonderful things about living in the UK - freedom of expression, and partly one of the reasons I came to live here.

I have spent my whole life paying for dental care and I have no intention of stopping.

[SpontaneousOrder]

There's a good overview of the economics of US healthcare here:

The Economics of US Healthcare - Gilbert G. Berdine, M.D. - Mises Daily

Some interesting points include licensure & the fact that doctors/nurses are a cartel and don't want too much young, cheaper competition (which is how we ended up with a minimum wage - despite popular opinion; Unions like minimum wages because they price young cheap labour out of the market).

Also the fact that the government forces insurance companies to insure against uninsurable events - for example colonoscopy at age 50. Policy holders can pool their risk when it comes to insurable events, but uninsurable events such as the colonoscopy at age 50 cannot be - the risk is a 100% certainty for almost everyone. Forcing insurers to cover those kinds of costs is a hidden way to socialise those costs, which means that everyone pays for that precautionary expense whether they want it or not (and given that insurers are in the business to make profit, you'd be better off saving up yourself to get the checkup at 50).

[Flashman]

So what we're saying is that the NHS is actually really good and cost effective? That does deserve a Blimey!

(Of course the large number of immigrants they hire must help keep the costs down).

I put it down to the excellent management skills.


NHS spend £5,000 on jazz leadership lessons - HR Grapevine

[SpontaneousOrder]

why aren't competitors coming into the market and driving down the prices? Because of goverment/state regulations creating a barrier to entry perhaps?

Plus the fact that the pseudo-private health industry is suckling at the teat of the federal government. How can potential competitors stand a chance, even if they are theoretically cheaper, when uncompetetive, established players, are effectively subsidised by the state?

[KentPhilip]

Hospitals have armies of lawyers and expect to be sued constantly.

Good point. And some of the payouts are very high. Millions of dollars for the smallest thing, with punitive damages even higher.
It is the fault of the judges over there who award these stupid payouts. If payouts were lower and fairer the costs of everything, including the lawyers and insurance, would come down to reasonable levels.
The government needs to instruct the judges to change their behavior in this respect, and similar is true over here in the UK.

[vetran]

Bad teeth are a result of poor dental hygiene (Orthodontics are paid for by the NHS and so is maxillofacial treatment). If you brush properly twice a day, floss daily, visit the oral hygienist every 12 months, and see your dentist annually, periodontal disease and caries are unlikely to occur. I can't see why the Taxpayer should have to pay for remedial dental work?

Annual Checkups / Oral Hygienist are around £46 IIRC? That is not expensive.

oh another one who wants to blame the victim. nice to see an armchair dentist. You used long words.

There are many causes for bad teeth including poor health & genetic reasons.

£46 might not be much for you but for many its a day or two's wages.

£214 for bridge or crown is a weeks wages for some.

one assumes if you have lung disease you will pay because all lung problems must be the result of smoking?

[CheeseSlice]

The NHS is sub 3rd world

truely useless care.

Oh I see where you're coming from there. ...

...Out of space !

[CoolCat]

The NHS is worse than the US. I lived in Chicago and saw first hand how their people get treated, both rich and poor. However the US is not the model to copy, better model is the way New Zealand does it, or Belgium. The NHS is sub 3rd world AND we all pay way too much for substandard care. It would be good if folk got bills here and saw how much the NHS was charging the government, and us through taxes, for some truely useless care.

[ASB]

When done privately my monthly treatment cost approx 11k.

9k for the drugs; 2k for the hotel/nursing services. It'snow done on the NHS, drug cost is the same.

I understand from a support group that the equivalent cost in the USA is around $75k. It's a big difference.

I imagine a large chunk of it is insurance related in the provision of the care.

[Scruff]

Perhaps, I should have used the phrase "healthy teeth" as opposed to "bad teeth" but let the semantic stand.