Reply to: The other side of the 'fence'

[Damon]

I would argue the first page if that. I would bet money 99 times out of a 100 the only time an agent gets to page 3 of anything is a certain tabloid paper they bring to work with them.

Agreed.

I use page one for background, role summary and key word list so they match.

Page two is summary of last 5 years.

Page 3.......quiet at the back!....is just one liners to complete the role history on page one.

When recruiting I bin CV's over four pages long without looking at them and feed back to agent not to send them.

[Dallas]

Yep

any more than 2/3 pages and you are deemed inarticulate and arrogant, regardless of the 'I've been doing this for year' BS.

If you cant chop it down it is arrogant to suggest for the higher roles that someone has time to read past page 3 when they have a couple of hundred CVs to go through. I'd be weary of assigning a tight deadline to someone who needs 7 pages...

One agent told me - each CV has 6 seconds to wow, another dumps half in the bin before reading the rest.

[northernladuk]

If it works for you great.

Not sure if agents count pages but they do get bored after 2/3 and stop reading.

I would argue the first page if that. I would bet money 99 times out of a 100 the only time an agent gets to page 3 of anything is a certain tabloid paper they bring to work with them.

[psychocandy]

Really. But I don't care to count pages. What's important is the content. Only agencies are interested in counting pages.

If it works for you great.

Not sure if agents count pages but they do get bored after 2/3 and stop reading.

[original PM]

Devil is in the detail....PM's need to understand the initiative not just the financials...that sounds like managing up not the project

If there is someone to book meetings rooms great! If not, JFDI.

I find myself recording decisions and actions in meetings even if there is someone there to do it as they often don't quite 'get' the item

I agree - but the answer is actually no.

A PM should be able to follow a process that will deliver an project.

The PM then tailors their approach based on what the stakeholder/main sponsor wants.

In this case they want the project delivered but having 'control' of the financials is more important so we now have lots and lots of documents explaining why the project is failing!

Just political bullsh!t - trying to put a website live to sell a few items online - 18 months and 1.5 million later we still are not selling anything online and the proposed solution is so full of holes and bugs it is a joke.

[scooterscot]

7 pages. Really.

Really. But I don't care to count pages. What's important is the content. Only agencies are interested in counting pages.

[psychocandy]

However!



I don't agree. I've had many an interview, my CV is seven pages.

7 pages. Really.

[Damon]

Devil is in the detail....PM's need to understand the initiative not just the financials...that sounds like managing up not the project

If there is someone to book meetings rooms great! If not, JFDI.

I find myself recording decisions and actions in meetings even if there is someone there to do it as they often don't quite 'get' the item

[MPwannadecentincome]

Which is an interesting point - however some PM's I have come across just seem to manage a budget sheet and a gant chart. They do not actually mamage the project rather the project happens and they record things on excel spreadsheets/gant charts - almost to a point where they are not actually responsible for delviering the project.

That sounds more like a Project Planner/Co-ordinator than a Project Manager.

In additon they do not book rooms etc - an action may be taken away for something to happen but it is not down to the PM to make it happen.... which is strange because for me part of the PM role was facilitation of meetings etc.

Err something wrong there the PM is supposed to make sure those things happen either through facilitation or kicking!

[original PM]

This is a well made point. I have seen lots of roles on this on Jobserve in the last week. I fail to understand why they have called the role as a PM when they should have been upfront and honest and just said Product Owner, Product Manager, Test Manager, Scrum Master.

I also find it amazing in many organisations I have worked in the trend to reducing admin/secretarial/PA staff has put unnecessary requirements on "team managers" in achieving simple things like booking a room - when there are no rooms free too much time is lost chasing down somewhere to have a meeting, when a handful of people suffer this problem they decide they want a "project manager" to take some of their load off them?

Which is an interesting point - however some PM's I have come across just seem to manage a budget sheet and a gant chart. They do not actually mamage the project rather the project happens and they record things on excel spreadsheets/gant charts - almost to a point where they are not actually responsible for delviering the project.

In additon they do not book rooms etc - an action may be taken away for something to happen but it is not down to the PM to make it happen.... which is strange because for me part of the PM role was facilitation of meetings etc.

[MPwannadecentincome]

Most companies don't understand effective project management. They ask for project managers (a lot even ask for formal PM accreditation) but most don't want a project manager. They want a technical team leader who can do a bit of admin. If they wanted a project manager they wouldn't be asking for technical skills of any kind. At a recent interview 70% of the questions I was asked were very technical in nature and nothing at all to do with project management.

This is a well made point. I have seen lots of roles on this on Jobserve in the last week. I fail to understand why they have called the role as a PM when they should have been upfront and honest and just said Product Owner, Product Manager, Test Manager, Scrum Master.

I also find it amazing in many organisations I have worked in the trend to reducing admin/secretarial/PA staff has put unnecessary requirements on "team managers" in achieving simple things like booking a room - when there are no rooms free too much time is lost chasing down somewhere to have a meeting, when a handful of people suffer this problem they decide they want a "project manager" to take some of their load off them?

[doodab]

It's a dog eat dog world

And yet some dogs still hunt in packs. Funny that.

[MPwannadecentincome]

interesting - can I have the link to the linkedin discussion please?

cheers

[original PM]

Fair points but the fact remains thus

1) Any company is there to make money - recruitment companies are no exception.
2) Most recruitment consultants have to generate their own leads and business - and thus they are actually salesmen.
3) The sole interest of a salesman (or woman!) is to make sales and generate money - they will tell you exactly what you want to hear as long as you say yes.

It's a dog eat dog world use and abuse rec companies they way they abuse you.

[suityou01]

And Scooterscot's response to all this is very measured and honest.

I like the guy!

HTH