Reply to: Free child care

[woohoo]

New Labour up to its tricks again. When they were in power the master plan was to give away lots of dosh for people to breed and now it seems they want to take advantage of that breeding and offer free child care. Where is the money coming from ? Each one of their policy seems to center around giving away this and that with no real explanation on how they will fund it.

When are they going to tell the country's population to go and work hard and earn a decent days wages and fund their life style ? If you cannot afford child care then dont have children. Simple as that.

I've heard that wolves are pretty good at bringing up children. Why not make use of all the pet day care centres and train the dogs to look after the children. We can do something similar with dolphins for kids that show promise at swimming.

I can't wait for the health and safety brigade to jump on this with their needless concerns.

[vetran]

I don't get the FSM stigma, are they providing free pasta as school meals now ?

Ah FSM, peas be upon him!

[amcdonald]

Which is why we believe (myself and a head from school where school meals were free in the trial run) that claims may well increase when the FSM stigma is removed.

I don't get the FSM stigma, are they providing free pasta as school meals now ?

[eek]

then you get the pester - why does X eat school meals everyday?

My kids get them as a treat once or twice a month.

Which is why we believe (myself and a head from school where school meals were free in the trial run) that claims may well increase when the FSM stigma is removed.

[vetran]

Aberdeen schools (or some there) were big advocates of letting children on school meals and packed mix completely, so that you can still sit with your mates, but apparently that's a big pain in the bum for our school to implement...

then you get the pester - why does X eat school meals everyday?

My kids get them as a treat once or twice a month.

[TheFaQQer]

ESC is the system that allows you to identify any benefits a parent is claiming without asking from directly...

As for the rest I can merely quote the empirical evidence, up north claims rose as Free Meals were introduced, claims dropped as the experiment finished....

I thought that a parent still had to register for a free school meal, even if they are on benefits. Don't know, but that's the assumption I've always had - our school writes to remind parents that they should register even if they don't take one, because then we get the money. Doesn't make much difference, to be honest, though.

Aberdeen schools (or some there) were big advocates of letting children on school meals and packed mix completely, so that you can still sit with your mates, but apparently that's a big pain in the bum for our school to implement...

[vetran]

Yup that is the issue. self-fulfulling house value increases. People in a continuous materialistic chase. And who pays now - the kids, and who pays later, the kids.

quite possibly but short of moving to a commune for the average Joe/Joanna I see no way out of it.

Rent is just as bad.

[lilelvis2000]

But the reality is many mums feel guilty dropping their kids off but with average wages in the £20k range and the 2 bed houses starting at £150K then the mums have to work.

Yup that is the issue. self-fulfulling house value increases. People in a continuous materialistic chase. And who pays now - the kids, and who pays later, the kids.

[eek]

(I don't know what esc is, so can't comment on why it's not used)

ESC is the system that allows you to identify any benefits a parent is claiming without asking from directly...

As for the rest I can merely quote the empirical evidence, up north claims rose as Free Meals were introduced, claims dropped as the experiment finished....

[vetran]

Please tell me that the "yummy mummy" you mentioned in OAD is a nanny as well?!?!

Something in Marketing I think.

First kid, Caesarian I'm told.

[vetran]

I too feel children function best when looked after by their mother which is why I encouraged my wife to train as a child minder, it was the perfect job to allow her to spend time with the kids.

But the reality is many mums feel guilty dropping their kids off but with average wages in the £20k range and the 2 bed houses starting at £150K then the mums have to work.

The post nursery dearth of child care is a real problem.

8am - 4pm is ok but 6pm would mean you could do say 25-30 hours 3-4 days a week getting nearly a full salary.

[TheFaQQer]

I'm a parent, married to a child minder and friends with many child minders and child care professionals.

Please tell me that the "yummy mummy" you mentioned in OAD is a nanny as well?!?!

[Coalman]

No not at lessons, after school clubs and day care for 4-5 year old plus.



So reasonably you need childcare until 12-14.

Many schools provide a 'Gap club' which fills in the Gap between a half day primary or school end and 5pm.

The child is then minded by professional childcare teams, they enjoy play and afternoon sleeps(for near nursery age). Providing the same level of care as a professional day care but on school grounds, the price is less.

However the start is normally 8:50 and collect at 5pm. Which limits the jobs the mums can get, 3 days a week is fine with some employers if you can work full days.

I'm just proposing that they extend the school age care to 7-8am drop off and 6pm pickup. This is the area individual child minders currently fill with school 'drop off' and 'pick up'. The child minders sometimes charge a premium for this because it reduces their ability to earn with full time kids because of their 'ratio' (Kids to carers).

Also when term time only children become school age it becomes difficult to find care minders for them as the child minder only earns £8 - £16 a day(£4 an hour 2-4 hours) for that child which is a fifth of their earning potential or they charge while the kid is at school. Nurseries will rarely touch them for similar reasons or charge a half day say £20 - £30 to preserve the place, this tends to be only for nursery age as they don't want 8 year olds mixed with babies.

So when they go to school full time until they are 12 then you have a real problem with childcare. This obsession with just worrying about cute babies is only half the story. They are the profitable and easy ones.

I'm a parent, married to a child minder and friends with many child minders and child care professionals.

Not sure why you feel the need to accuse people of being ignorant because you don't understand
them. If you need an explanation please ask, it is only polite.

Apologies, I read your post as wanting to keep a child in school, either as prepared or post school club from 8am to 6pm. I blame this on reading too many of assgurus posts.

We have two primary school children and their school provides care from 8am until 4pm if we need it. We make use of this and share the burden.

It's my personal opinion that children should be cared for by their own families (parent or grandparents) wherever possible, even sacrificing income for this. My wife is a teacher, doing two days a week and we are struggling at specific times. Hint, a two day a week teaching job equates to about three days a week. With after school activities it's hard to fit this all in. And I have a flexible client.

Not where this is going but typed it now!

[vetran]

What about the child?
Most primary school kids are knackered after a few weeks of the current schedule!

Sorry if you are a parent but you don't come across as one.

No not at lessons, after school clubs and day care for 4-5 year old plus.

The law does not set a minimum age at which children can be left alone. However, it is an offence to leave a child alone when doing so puts him or her at risk.

So reasonably you need childcare until 12-14.

Many schools provide a 'Gap club' which fills in the Gap between a half day primary or school end and 5pm.

The child is then minded by professional childcare teams, they enjoy play and afternoon sleeps(for near nursery age). Providing the same level of care as a professional day care but on school grounds, the price is less.

However the start is normally 8:50 and collect at 5pm. Which limits the jobs the mums can get, 3 days a week is fine with some employers if you can work full days.

I'm just proposing that they extend the school age care to 7-8am drop off and 6pm pickup. This is the area individual child minders currently fill with school 'drop off' and 'pick up'. The child minders sometimes charge a premium for this because it reduces their ability to earn with full time kids because of their 'ratio' (Kids to carers).

Also when term time only children become school age it becomes difficult to find care minders for them as the child minder only earns £8 - £16 a day(£4 an hour 2-4 hours) for that child which is a fifth of their earning potential or they charge while the kid is at school. Nurseries will rarely touch them for similar reasons or charge a half day say £20 - £30 to preserve the place, this tends to be only for nursery age as they don't want 8 year olds mixed with babies.

So when they go to school full time until they are 12 then you have a real problem with childcare. This obsession with just worrying about cute babies is only half the story. They are the profitable and easy ones.

I'm a parent, married to a child minder and friends with many child minders and child care professionals.

Not sure why you feel the need to accuse people of being ignorant because you don't understand
them. If you need an explanation please ask, it is only polite.

[TheFaQQer]

If tower hamlets are too stupid not to use esc that is their look out.

(I don't know what esc is, so can't comment on why it's not used)

If people don't see the point in claiming for something that they get anyway, then you can hardly blame the school or the authority. If the school appeal, beg, plead for them to sign up for something that they don't need to do, and they choose not to do it, then you can't blame the school or the authority.

So, when people don;t claim for something that they don't need, come next September, then who can you blame? The school for begging and being ignored by the parents, the authority for trying to explain it, or the government department that brought in a policy that delivered the problem?

In Durham the drop occurred the year after the trial finished 7288 claimed in 2010-11 (last year of trial), only 6867 claimed in 2011-12 after it stopped.

The reason and I've just chatted to a head involved people stopped claiming as children's friends went back to packed lunches leaving only the poorer children having them.

Many eligible people stop claiming as they didn't want the meals feeling their children would be stigmatised.

So, why not communicate that they should register for the free meal and not have it? Doesn't stigmatise anyone.

It really wouldn't surprise me if claims go up. Oh and once they've claimed the pupil premium stays for 6 years....

I can't see that parents will claim for something that they don't have to claim for. Particularly in areas where adult literacy are low.