Reply to: Client wants to make me permie

[psychocandy]

If they're serious then surely its all about the package offered?

[LondonTube]

Surely the money hit won't be as bad now you are clearly inside IR35 as the role is enduring enough to be offered to be permies and you are the one he picked? Might be able to get a better package permie than your inside IR35 renumeration?

Well, that is not really a problem. I am not in the UK and I have become tax resident on this country (I do not commute to London... I moved here). This country does not have such humongous taxes as the UK and I work here under an umbrella company.

Even with that, I take home 70% of my earnings, with no worries about invoicing, taxes, social security charges and so on... So well, yes, even if something like IR35 existed here I am already under it with my umbrella, but it is not so tax-unefficient as it would be in the UK and I have a more relaxed life. My umbrella company pays me as soon as they get the timesheets, even if they get paid later by the Agency, etc... in this sense I have a real peace of mind with payments

This is, btw, something that I also like here... as soon as I go back to the UK I have to choose between paying taxes as a permie (no way!) or deal with a limited company. I do not think I would fall into IR35 with exactly the same role in the UK.

Also the Agency has something to say about this. I think that the consultancy company would convince them, since I think they move a lot of contracts, but this would be also another issue to deal with for going permie.

[eek]

Surely the money hit won't be as bad now you are clearly inside IR35 as the role is enduring enough to be offered to be permies and you are the one he picked? Might be able to get a better package permie than your inside IR35 renumeration?

I role being enduring enough to offer to permies does not make it IR35 fodder. Most contracts could be done by permies but management want others to do them because they either don't have the permies or don't have permies of good enough quality.

[amcdonald]

One good delaying tactic is say that your wife likes you working away from home, so that you're going to need some time to sell her the benefits of going permanent

Something that sounds convincing but is utter tulip, in other words agent speak

[doodab]

Whenever I'm asked this question I always ask how much more they are going to pay me.

[northernladuk]

Surely the money hit won't be as bad now you are clearly inside IR35 as the role is enduring enough to be offered to be permies and you are the one he picked? Might be able to get a better package permie than your inside IR35 renumeration?

[LondonTube]

Seems to me it is def a profit AND a budget problem, both intrinsically linked in for a consultancy. They want to reduce their budget so they can maximise profit.

I'm not sure what you can do. Ask them outright and they may well bend the truth to get you to convert.

You say the end client likes you? Anyone there you can drop a hint to that could make it clear to the consultancy that you must be retained?

That I was also thinking about it... I am positively sure that the end client likes me. On top of that, I am the only person working for this client that has learnt the local language (which is not English). Of course this is not mandatory for this job (I did not speak it when I joined), but I think that has impressed the client. Now I normally work in the local language and it is also more comfortable for them, so I think they appreciate that.

I don't know, however, if this is such a strong point to make a difference...

At the end of the day, if you want to go perm you work out your takehome from contracting at clientco and work out the perm equivalent to get the same and ask for that or a little more. Worked for me.

The fools mwuhahahaha!!!

That is what I thought. I calculated my standard monthly pay (20 days), multiplied it by 10.5 (one month of holiday plus bank holidays) and got a gross amount. Interestinly high for permanent...

Actually my manager asked me yesterday "so if you could say a number, something that does not make everybody jump out of the window..." while I was driving him home lol.

What about the 50% tax take plus NI?

What about not being able to claim travel to your place of work (have you seen the price of a peak 1st class ticket for example).

There is no job security as a permie so what's the incentive?

The approach is to very politely decline each time but offer to take on another contract in the meantime. You can probably string it out for a year or so and by then you are probably ready to move on anyway.

Yes, that is what I have thought maybe... to delay this a bit until my contract is up and then renegociate an extension, maybe six more months, and then we will see...

Thanks for the advice, guys. I do not think I will accept becoming permanent, although I will miss this job if because of that I am not extended :S

[Paddy]

Or as Paddy puts it: I am an IT prostitute. People go to prostitutes to have a good screw, pay for it with no relationship problems. Hookers just want the money, they don’t want to get involved in politics of marriage so don’t embarrass yourself by asking one to marry in order to try and save money

[EternalOptimist]

Client wants you to go permie ? It's a no-brainer. No more agents, no more worries about getting paid, no VAT , no accountants , no HMRC. Holidays, training sick pay ? It's obvious.
Then again, being stuck with a boss or a colleague that you hate, same old sameold, SSDD, no new excitement and less money. Stick with the contracting, it's a no brainer

[eek]

The same questioned was asked of me many clients ago. I let out an uncontrolled laugh / exclamation not releasing the PM was being serious. Unsurprisingly the contract was not renewed.

Lessons learned: Put a drawing pin in your shoe next time the PM invites you for a meeting.

Tack is always a good idea when dealing with clients (and if you don't have it get one).

[scooterscot]

The same questioned was asked of me many clients ago. I let out an uncontrolled laugh / exclamation not releasing the PM was being serious. Unsurprisingly the contract was not renewed.

Lessons learned: Put a drawing pin in your shoe next time the PM invites you for a meeting.

[MarillionFan]

What about the 50% tax take plus NI?

What about not being able to claim travel to your place of work (have you seen the price of a peak 1st class ticket for example).

There is no job security as a permie so what's the incentive?

The approach is to very politely decline each time but offer to take on another contract in the meantime. You can probably string it out for a year or so and by then you are probably ready to move on anyway.

Factor it in you numpty. If it works out better then it's a no brainer.

[darmstadt]

In my first contract I was offered permie and took it as they offered me interest free loans and a share option. So took the loan and shares, waited until the time ran out before I had to pay anything extra back and left to go back contracting. Mind you, the contract was only GBP5,50 an hour and it was shifts, the next was a whole GBP8 an hour!

[DimPrawn]

At the end of the day, if you want to go perm you work out your takehome from contracting at clientco and work out the perm equivalent to get the same and ask for that or a little more. Worked for me.

The fools mwuhahahaha!!!

What about the 50% tax take plus NI?

What about not being able to claim travel to your place of work (have you seen the price of a peak 1st class ticket for example).

There is no job security as a permie so what's the incentive?

The approach is to very politely decline each time but offer to take on another contract in the meantime. You can probably string it out for a year or so and by then you are probably ready to move on anyway.

[MarillionFan]

At the end of the day, if you want to go perm you work out your takehome from contracting at clientco and work out the perm equivalent to get the same and ask for that or a little more. Worked for me.

The fools mwuhahahaha!!!