Reply to: Permiewhinge

[jmo21]

Why do I want a new batch of fresh talent undercutting my rates with their naivety and youth?

I play it all down when asked, I earn nothing like what the agent charges, taxes, IR35, periods out of work etc etc

Especially with permies with the same skill set. I don't want to encourage anyone into my market at all in fact!

[d000hg]

Maybe Mr. ISO is interested in contracting himself and trying to pump you for information but lacks social graces... so he sounds perfect!

[doodab]

When I was last permie, I was asked at a management meeting "which one of your contractors drives an Aston Martin? We're obviously paying them too much!"

I spoke to the contractor (who I knew) and he just said "no, you're paying me less than I earned on my last gig - they were paying me too much!"

On my first ever contract I got told off for parking my Audi in the section reserved for Porsches. Oddly enough the guy who turned up in his mates F355 was allowed to park it wherever he wanted.

[kingcook]

spaceballs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NSFW obviously

Yarp!!

[Mich the Tester]

Was it a nice sandwich?

Dunno, I chose something else because I don't like cold club sandwich. The bacon should be sizzling and the chicken should be piping hot.

[SimonMac]

we're not just doing it for money...we're doing it for a tulipload of money!

spaceballs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NSFW obviously

[SimonMac]

Yep, it's started. Yesterday one of the permies had a little party as he's leaving clientco to go contracting. He's set up with a nice shiny contract at <big Dutch electrical goods manufacturer> down the road where he'll be starting next week; I'll refer to him as Mr Sensible. Thing is, there's a recruitment 'drive' going on here to hire testers, while there are more permie testers leaving to go contracting than joining and they're having to fill the gaps with scummy contractors like me. The 'Quality Manager', (who's a bit of a twunt but luckily not someone I report to; we'll call him Mr ISO9000) told me he's very concerned about this and feels that some of the permies are being influenced by the contractors to leave and work for themselves and that may be the case with Mr Sensible, and that they've advertised a testing job for the last year and haven't had any responses. I told him he should speak to Mr Sensible himself and ask him what his reasons are and that I don't know; everyone will have their own reasons for going contracting. But then Mr ISO9000 said to me 'it's obvious why he's going; he wants more money! All you contractors make loads of money!' I just quietly said that in a good year we can do quite well and in a bad year it can be difficult, but there's more to it than money and it's everyone's individual decision, so I can't speak for Mr Sensible or any other contractor. Then he says 'but it must be financially attractive otherwise you wouldn't do it!' I sensed that this discussion was going the wrong way, so I said 'well, you really need to speak to Mr Sensible about this; it's none of my business'.

Happily a permie then started on about his rather tasty club sandwich and very helpfully changed the subject; thing is, he's been asking me all about contracting because he thinks it's what he wants to do, but I've been avoiding the subject. Just wondering what'll happen when he announces he's resigning. Another contractor here told me she's scared of parking her car (S6) in a space that's visible from the office and doesn't wear her watch to work any more because she's had lots of comments about rich contractors.

The crazy thing is; these permies are on good salaries and bonusses and have a huge number of days off each year; they are NOT your average poor permie types and are paid well above average for their jobs, so what are they whining about?

Anyway, I got here this morning and parked the Jag in full view of Mr ISO9000's office just to annoy him, which might not have been very sensible.

Just what is wrong with earning a bit more than the next person? It's not as if we live in serfdom in western Europe and can't make choices do anything about our circumstances.

Was it a nice sandwich?

[sasguru]

Why do I want a new batch of fresh talent undercutting my rates with their naivety and youth?

Thank Labour that new talent isn't really coming through due to the fooking up of the education system.
When I was setting up an anlytics team a few years ago, recruitment of good staff was a real headache, I hired 3 French guys for the team: for some reason French statisticians seem to be very well trained.

[Mich the Tester]

Why do I want a new batch of fresh talent undercutting my rates with their naivety and youth?

Well, in a way I agree, but on the other hand, it's becoming a real problem for the tech and manufacturing companies in NL, to the extent they're having to look elsewhere to find the skills and some might actually move somewhere else because the government are making it more difficult to bring clever young people over here. We have a nation of management halfwits while customers want to pay big money for clever machinery that's well bolted together.

[kingcook]

We're not just doing it for money...We're doing it for a tulipload of money!

[bobspud]

Why do I want a new batch of fresh talent undercutting my rates with their naivety and youth?

[Mich the Tester]

So do I but they dont need to know that!

[Old Hack]

So do I but they dont need to know that!

[bobspud]

Couldn't disagree more. I pay someone else £140 a month and all I do is bill, and spend. Someone else does that tulipe for me, all I get is emails I have to print off, sign, copy and mail back once or twice a year.

So do I but they dont need to know that!

[Mich the Tester]

[B]When I was last permie, I was asked at a management meeting "which one of your contractors drives an Aston Martin? We're obviously paying them too much!"

First answer that came to mind;

'He's building a web service that'll speed up delivery to a group of your customers who spend umpty million pounds a year at this company and potentially raise their purchases by 20%, while you're all sitting in a meeting moaning about Aston Martins; so who's being paid too much?'