Permiewhinge

[Mich the Tester]

Yep, it's started. Yesterday one of the permies had a little party as he's leaving clientco to go contracting. He's set up with a nice shiny contract at <big Dutch electrical goods manufacturer> down the road where he'll be starting next week; I'll refer to him as Mr Sensible. Thing is, there's a recruitment 'drive' going on here to hire testers, while there are more permie testers leaving to go contracting than joining and they're having to fill the gaps with scummy contractors like me. The 'Quality Manager', (who's a bit of a twunt but luckily not someone I report to; we'll call him Mr ISO9000) told me he's very concerned about this and feels that some of the permies are being influenced by the contractors to leave and work for themselves and that may be the case with Mr Sensible, and that they've advertised a testing job for the last year and haven't had any responses. I told him he should speak to Mr Sensible himself and ask him what his reasons are and that I don't know; everyone will have their own reasons for going contracting. But then Mr ISO9000 said to me 'it's obvious why he's going; he wants more money! All you contractors make loads of money!' I just quietly said that in a good year we can do quite well and in a bad year it can be difficult, but there's more to it than money and it's everyone's individual decision, so I can't speak for Mr Sensible or any other contractor. Then he says 'but it must be financially attractive otherwise you wouldn't do it!' I sensed that this discussion was going the wrong way, so I said 'well, you really need to speak to Mr Sensible about this; it's none of my business'.

Happily a permie then started on about his rather tasty club sandwich and very helpfully changed the subject; thing is, he's been asking me all about contracting because he thinks it's what he wants to do, but I've been avoiding the subject. Just wondering what'll happen when he announces he's resigning. Another contractor here told me she's scared of parking her car (S6) in a space that's visible from the office and doesn't wear her watch to work any more because she's had lots of comments about rich contractors.

The crazy thing is; these permies are on good salaries and bonusses and have a huge number of days off each year; they are NOT your average poor permie types and are paid well above average for their jobs, so what are they whining about?

Anyway, I got here this morning and parked the Jag in full view of Mr ISO9000's office just to annoy him, which might not have been very sensible.

Just what is wrong with earning a bit more than the next person? It's not as if we live in serfdom in western Europe and can't make choices do anything about our circumstances.

[Halo Jones]

The grass is always greener on the other side..

They all see the shinnies but not everyone can see the risks in contracting, I could earn a lot more going consultant, but I like the security & fixed hours of permie life.

[Scrag Meister]

I have a text file, on the basics of contracting that I wrote for a permie friend of mine back in 2008, minor updates every now and then, so far I have sent it to something like 20 permies asking about contracting.

They asked, who am I to not assist.

[Old Hack]

The grass is always greener on the other side..

They all see the shinnies but not everyone can see the risks in contracting, I could earn a lot more going consultant, but I like the security & fixed hours of permie life.

I keep being offered permie roles, but the moolah just isn't right for me, plus I love the freshness of contracting.

For me, if you're good, contracting is pretty zero risk. But that's just my opinion, and I am in a niche area.

I was once offered a permie role for £80k, and was told it was the highest they would have ever paid a techie, and the boss would expect me to perform miracles, that he'd be watching all the work I was doing. At the time, I was on £550 a day, no stress, 37 hours a week. No brainer really.

If permies keep going on about rich contractors, I play along with it; I am not there to be friends with them, I am there as they couldn't do what I do.

[Mich the Tester]

If permies keep going on about rich contractors, I play along with it; I am not there to be friends with them, I am there as they couldn't do what I do.

Good point. I think in this case it's half permiewhinge and half managerwhinge. Here in NL loads of people studied 'Business Studies' or 'International Strategic Management' or some such guff believing that wearing a suit and having 'manager' in your job title was the guaranteed route to wealth and success. They got their useless guff degree, did the presenteeism thing for years and sat in all the meetings licking all the right arses until they finally got upgraded to an A4 1.8 and a two table desk instead of one, and now they're somewhat disappointed to see that the techies they're 'managing' (translate: obstructing) are earning twice as much while wandering in wearing a pair of jeans and then pissing off at 5 in a proper car. Add to that, too many 'yoofs' are being conned into the same thing, off to polyversity to study 'communications and marketing' while there's a shortage of people who can make computers do useful things or weld bits of metal together, and manufacturing firms like this can't find young people to join them despite having very good pay and conditions, so they have to hire contractors, plus a few Bobs who are actually here on Dutch pay; that's the real catch with outsourcing to Bob; he isn't stupid enough to carry on working for 3 rupees per hour when his skills can fetch 70k+ over here.

[bobspud]

Lets be fair. Until the governments destroy our companies with IR35 stupidity then its the best model for some people to operate in. It has to be pointed out to a few people a year that they need to stay permanent because they are rushing into it.

A few thoughts about handling that guy.

1) When he said that its because of the use of contractors that the guys a leaving. The obvious answer to that is "No you are not thinking strategically: The quality of the guys you hire are at the top end of the food chain (blatant lie) and so you have always been competing with contracting as an option in these guys heads. The fact was you already got lucky once to beat contracting at the last decision point but this was always going to be their last permanent role for many of them. It makes little difference if you use contractors or not. Agents will still be whispering in their ears and telling them how much extra they will earn if they jump ship, the markets looking up, so now they are on their way, they will still know guys in the industry that have already jumped the only thing you can do is start using more contractors not less because as your market picks up then more of your guys will be on their way out and you will need to hire more flexible resources to cover bursts of project activity..."

2) When I joined my current client co. I had a sales guy pop a dig in the open office about contractors (there is only one) I simply batted it off and said anyone in this office thats willing to risk losing their house on a dodgy IR35 investigation is more than willing to join me in the contractors boat. I very quickly reamed of the list of fines for things like late payment, failure to keep documentation and then went though vat regs and corporation tax and the other grim paperwork that we suffer. At the end I said any one that wants to go contracting can come and buy me a pint and I will explain it in detail...

Permies see the cash on top not the effort underneath and the truth is that a good contractor makes it look easy

[Old Hack]

Good point. I think in this case it's half permiewhinge and half managerwhinge. Here in NL loads of people studied 'Business Studies' or 'International Strategic Management' or some such guff believing that wearing a suit and having 'manager' in your job title was the guaranteed route to wealth and success. They got their useless guff degree, did the presenteeism thing for years and sat in all the meetings licking all the right arses until they finally got upgraded to an A4 1.8 and a two table desk instead of one, and now they're somewhat disappointed to see that the techies they're 'managing' (translate: obstructing) are earning twice as much while wandering in wearing a pair of jeans and then pissing off at 5 in a proper car. Add to that, too many 'yoofs' are being conned into the same thing, off to polyversity to study 'communications and marketing' while there's a shortage of people who can make computers do useful things or weld bits of metal together, and manufacturing firms like this can't find young people to join them despite having very good pay and conditions, so they have to hire contractors, plus a few Bobs who are actually here on Dutch pay; that's the real catch with outsourcing to Bob; he isn't stupid enough to carry on working for 3 rupees per hour when his skills can fetch 70k+ over here.

I couldn't agree more. Had a bit of a row with some PM yesterday who, quite simply, doesn't understand my arena, and so makes stupid demands, which I refuse, as they're stupid and explain why they're stupid. She doesn't understand it's not me standing my ground, it's me knowing my problem area better than her, and doing my job well. But if you get people in with a B.A. in Business Studies, then yes, they're tulip hot with MS Project, but that's about it.

[TheFaQQer]

When I was last permie, I was asked at a management meeting "which one of your contractors drives an Aston Martin? We're obviously paying them too much!"

I spoke to the contractor (who I knew) and he just said "no, you're paying me less than I earned on my last gig - they were paying me too much!"

[Old Hack]

I simply batted it off and said anyone in this office thats willing to risk losing their house on a dodgy IR35 investigation is more than willing to join me in the contractors boat. I very quickly reamed of the list of fines for things like late payment, failure to keep documentation and then went though vat regs and corporation tax and the other grim paperwork that we suffer. At the end I said any one that wants to go contracting can come and buy me a pint and I will explain it in detail...

Permies see the cash on top not the effort underneath and the truth is that a good contractor makes it look easy

Couldn't disagree more. I pay someone else £140 a month and all I do is bill, and spend. Someone else does that tulipe for me, all I get is emails I have to print off, sign, copy and mail back once or twice a year.

[Old Hack]

When I was last permie, I was asked at a management meeting "which one of your contractors drives an Aston Martin? We're obviously paying them too much!"

I spoke to the contractor (who I knew) and he just said "no, you're paying me less than I earned on my last gig - they were paying me too much!"

DB7?