Reply to: Consolation and solace for all of you

[doodab]

I read a book on the philosophy of testing once. Testicles I think it was.

[Mich the Tester]

Fook

Just gone live and found out a big chunk of countries cannot access the site
Just forced Bob TM in a teleconference to admit that the access testing for all the geographic locations was not as robust as expected (my words) -i.e. he lied and falsified evidence (what I really meant to say)

Emergency firewall rules going in to open the site up to those locations

What to do about Bob TM (3rd party so cant fire him unfortunately)

What kind of tests is he doing and how is he doing them?

Ask him to explain the difference between checking and testing, but read these articles before you ask him;
James Bach

Testing vs. Checking « Developsense Blog

[doodab]

Fook

Just gone live and found out a big chunk of countries cannot access the site
Just forced Bob TM in a teleconference to admit that the access testing for all the geographic locations was not as robust as expected (my words) -i.e. he lied and falsified evidence (what I really meant to say)

Emergency firewall rules going in to open the site up to those locations

What to do about Bob TM (3rd party so cant fire him unfortunately)

sue for losses.

[Troll]

Fook

Just gone live and found out a big chunk of countries cannot access the site
Just forced Bob TM in a teleconference to admit that the access testing for all the geographic locations was not as robust as expected (my words) -i.e. he lied and falsified evidence (what I really meant to say)

Emergency firewall rules going in to open the site up to those locations

What to do about Bob TM (3rd party so cant fire him unfortunately)

[Troll]

Indeed, Mr Troll

Good conclusion after reading one paragraph from the top return on a google search.

Made a career out of that!

[Mich the Tester]

Still sounds like input / expected output stuff ...the rest is mumbo jumbo

Indeed, Mr Troll

Good conclusion after reading one paragraph from the top return on a google search.

[Troll]

I actually enjoyed that conference. Very much a hothouse atmosphere, full of scientifically trained people, including some of the really big names in Context Driven Testing, who challenge every word you say and really make you think. To those of you who think testing is some boring activity involving simply checking inputs and outputs time and time again, I would say that what you are doing is not 'testing', but 'checking', which is a small part of testing. We actually automate as much 'checking' as possible because it's boring and time consuming; real testing is quite a bit more interesting and complicated. It involves a deep understanding of how systems work; I don't mean an understanding of the syntax of a particular language, but learning and experimenting with systems thinking, complexity and even philosophy.

I think our friend 'proggy' needs to read up on Context Driven Testing; it might actually help you to write better software. Seeing as I have taken the trouble over the last 15 years to learn as much about programming as I practically can while working as a tester, because I think if I'm going to test your work then I should understand it, it might be good if you actually took some time to find out a little bit about what I do before making ignorant remarks about testing.

The Seven Basic Principles of the Context-Driven School

The value of any practice depends on its context.
There are good practices in context, but there are no best practices.
People, working together, are the most important part of any project’s context.
Projects unfold over time in ways that are often not predictable.
The product is a solution. If the problem isn’t solved, the product doesn’t work.
Good software testing is a challenging intellectual process.
Only through judgment and skill, exercised cooperatively throughout the entire project, are we able to do the right things at the right times to effectively test our products.

Still sounds like input / expected output stuff ...the rest is mumbo jumbo

[Mich the Tester]

I actually enjoyed that conference. Very much a hothouse atmosphere, full of scientifically trained people, including some of the really big names in Context Driven Testing, who challenge every word you say and really make you think. To those of you who think testing is some boring activity involving simply checking inputs and outputs time and time again, I would say that what you are doing is not 'testing', but 'checking', which is a small part of testing. We actually automate as much 'checking' as possible because it's boring and time consuming; real testing is quite a bit more interesting and complicated. It involves a deep understanding of how systems work; I don't mean an understanding of the syntax of a particular language, but learning and experimenting with systems thinking, complexity and even philosophy.

I think our friend 'proggy' needs to read up on Context Driven Testing; it might actually help you to write better software. Seeing as I have taken the trouble over the last 15 years to learn as much about programming as I practically can while working as a tester, because I think if I'm going to test your work then I should understand it, it might be good if you actually took some time to find out a little bit about what I do before making ignorant remarks about testing.

[SueEllen]

No doubt there will be chats about how Developers look down on us but they would be lost without us.

You must have worked with some tulip people.

[mos]

I shall report when I can get out for a moment.

[vetran]

mm

a testicle ?

A Testy lot?

[norrahe]

Not looking very hard are you?

You need to go to here ....

Grand Hotel Karel V » Nederlands

Me an a few fellow permies ran up a bill of 1500 euros when we went there for a meal. It was even funnier when the idiot that put the bill in got knocked back by our manager (just for a few days to scare the wits out of him and calm him and his amex down!!)

Great place.

I've been to a few two Michelin starred places in cloggers and they've been pretty p!ss poor.

There are a few that are pretty good, but in cloggers, it's a bit of pot luck in the Michelin star range.

[EternalOptimist]

A tenacity of testers.

mm

a testicle ?

[Pogle]

wtf do a bunch of testers discuss over a whole weekend? .... surely all you have is an input and an expected output... end of

What's the collective noun for a group of testers?

A tenacity of testers.

[bobspud]

A good resturant in cloggers, chance will be a fine thing

Not looking very hard are you?

You need to go to here ....

Grand Hotel Karel V » Nederlands

Me an a few fellow permies ran up a bill of 1500 euros when we went there for a meal. It was even funnier when the idiot that put the bill in got knocked back by our manager (just for a few days to scare the wits out of him and calm him and his amex down!!)

Great place.