Reply to: Heaviest Bob Shops

[BolshieBastard]

There is a danger here that protests will sound like protectionism. If work is being shipped offshore then fine. it is a free world and there is no reason inmy view that we can complain. Bringing in thousands and thousands of ICT workers is a totally different matter. This is an abuse of a system that is supposed to help companies to set up and operate international businesses. For example if an Indian company wishes to set up in the UK it is right and proper to bring over technicians and sales people to implement their processes and win and service business. What is not acceptable is for those businesses to use the ICT system to bring multitudes of workers to work on time and materials replacing EU workers.

Do not confuse the two because one is unreasonable protectionism and the other is downright fraud.

Two words, utter rubbish.

About time we started looking after our present and future. Our kids will have no hope of a decent job if we dont start putting up some barriers and start enforcing them.

[darmstadt]

There is just no

[CoolCat]

There is a danger here that protests will sound like protectionism. If work is being shipped offshore then fine. it is a free world and there is no reason inmy view that we can complain. Bringing in thousands and thousands of ICT workers is a totally different matter. This is an abuse of a system that is supposed to help companies to set up and operate international businesses. For example if an Indian company wishes to set up in the UK it is right and proper to bring over technicians and sales people to implement their processes and win and service business. What is not acceptable is for those businesses to use the ICT system to bring multitudes of workers to work on time and materials replacing EU workers.

Do not confuse the two because one is unreasonable protectionism and the other is downright fraud.

Re "If work is being shipped offshore then fine" not if they are stealing British intellectual property to do it, especially IP which has been funded by the British taxpayer via universitys etc. And not if they are breaking the data protection act, ie no movement of personal data outside of the EC etc, which they routinely do break. Etc

[vetran]

but to a degree they've brought it on themselves through years of lacklustre performance and digging in of heels.

wouldn't matter if they were excellent we had a bunch of guys that made us look like imbeciles, now the support is run by the tea bag firm. They are cheap,bonus kerching, job done.

[westtester]

I believe that the UK's largest building society is planning to outsource all its development roles offshore.

Yep, they've already moved a substantial portion of testing that way with predictable results. TCS, IBM and Accenture are all involved in NBS and are using offshore resources for most of their staff. Permies ain't happy but to a degree they've brought it on themselves through years of lacklustre performance and digging in of heels.

[bobspud]

There is a danger here that protests will sound like protectionism. If work is being shipped offshore then fine. it is a free world and there is no reason inmy view that we can complain. Bringing in thousands and thousands of ICT workers is a totally different matter. This is an abuse of a system that is supposed to help companies to set up and operate international businesses. For example if an Indian company wishes to set up in the UK it is right and proper to bring over technicians and sales people to implement their processes and win and service business. What is not acceptable is for those businesses to use the ICT system to bring multitudes of workers to work on time and materials replacing EU workers.

Do not confuse the two because one is unreasonable protectionism and the other is downright fraud.

This ^

Except I dont call it fraud. It's 21st century slavery...

[GB9]

Do not confuse the two because one is unreasonable protectionism and the other is downright fraud.

I am verging on the protectionism side tbh. I would object less if the quality were good and delivery were timely, however, from very recent experience, delivery is on the wish list, and when it does come, the quality is poor. Worse still, the cost is as much, if not more than to deliver the work locally.

I really don't understand why the very senior management of these companies are doing this when everyone on the ground, including their own staff can see it isn't working.

[DodgyAgent]

There is a danger here that protests will sound like protectionism. If work is being shipped offshore then fine. it is a free world and there is no reason inmy view that we can complain. Bringing in thousands and thousands of ICT workers is a totally different matter. This is an abuse of a system that is supposed to help companies to set up and operate international businesses. For example if an Indian company wishes to set up in the UK it is right and proper to bring over technicians and sales people to implement their processes and win and service business. What is not acceptable is for those businesses to use the ICT system to bring multitudes of workers to work on time and materials replacing EU workers.

Do not confuse the two because one is unreasonable protectionism and the other is downright fraud.

[Notascooby]

Some of the best SQL Server DBAs I've worked with have been off-shore. how they were treated by those on-shore made me sick but that's a different matter.

Knew their subject matter, were quick and diligent, could prioritise and escalate when appropriate. This was with Tesco.

With LBG - some of the worst Message Broker off-shore guys ever.

Difference maybe down to that Tesco use off-shore but they work for Tesco. LBG use off-shore but they work for the likes of Wipro where the answer is of course we can build / support that application, errm what is it exactly?

[CoolCat]

BT were an early adopter and have thousands, GSK, Lloyds bank, M & S, Steria, etc etc etc

[norrahe]

They know no better (then outsourcing) so get what they deserve.

I really don't understand why they do this. Most of the outsourcing companies are no longer as cheap as they used to be, they have a high turnover of staff. I'm sure some of you have worked with companies that have staff with some knowledge but in all my experience, I have yet to have a project whereby I need to onshore to get the job done.

[vetran]

Bangalore Telecom

basically anyone in Ftse or Fortune.

[Pogle]

I believe that the UK's largest building society is planning to outsource all its development roles offshore.

[d000hg]

I would agree that the majority probably do, however some seem to have abandoned the Great British worker almost in totality in favour of what from my experience is a very poor and expensive substitute.

Sour grapes much?

[evilagent]

I have been to 4 interviews in the recent past, and 2 of them had a significant indian outsource element.

You have to ask the bean-counters why they make such decisions.