Reply to: CUK Rant Bait

[Sysman]

Or you could just save up money when you are earning.

Not when you've been working for a twat who didn't pay you.

BTDT. It wasn't pleasant at all.

I swore then that I would never get a permie job again, and so far, so good.

I did have a solid job offer, but the dole office wouldn't pay me to get to an interview because:

1. the job was abroad
2. it paid more than £20K or so p.a.

After paying tax at the top rate several years before that, I felt the system had completely let me down.

[Sysman]

Ah yes.

The earnings related dole that the Sainted Margaret abolished.

Yes my Dad enjoyed that when he took early retirement. With 40 years of working by the time he was 55 he was quite glad of that.

He managed to pay off the mortgage with his redundancy dosh, and with no mortgage and no commuting/smart suit costs he was only a fiver a month worse off.

And he took delight in driving to the dole office in his Volvo to sign on (I think it was still a weekly signing back then).

[Robinho]

This is where it's better in places where you get earnings related dole for a limited time. This gives you a buffer, and more importantly the dosh to get yourself to interviews, do some networking and some training.

Or you could just save up money when you are earning.

[Sysman]

1. The actual answer is that benefits exceed the bottom end pay for work.
2. It is possible to live moderately on benefits.
3. Whilst receiving benefits you are not expected to exert yourself.


Number 1 is caused by over supply of workers for reduced / changing job market. Be it Eastern etc immigrants or the reduction of manual labour and the increase in service & high end job that the workforce are not prepared for.

Number 2 whilst I have no wish to punish short term claimants or people willing to work I believe helping people along a return to work ladder that shrinks as you progress (you have fewer & fewer options and fewer people can be supported on the higher rungs). So long term claimants are forced to reconsider.

Number 3 - Workfare, there is so much that could be done to make the country and the world a better place by unskilled people. Get them up in the morning and make em work. It would also stop those working illegally off benefits.

This is where it's better in places where you get earnings related dole for a limited time. This gives you a buffer, and more importantly the dosh to get yourself to interviews, do some networking and some training.

[Robinho]

Well we could at least make room for the workers and cut their commuting costs

It's all just central planning though which is doomed to fail. Ultimately we need to let market forces dictate things again, but that's going to be a difficult process as the gov has made such a hash of the country.

[d000hg]

Saw on the news this morning that the housing benefit bill in the UK was £24 Billion!!

Benefits should be for those who can't work (sick/disabled and unemployed looking for work) they should not be for those who decide not to work. Certain benefits should be time related and on a sliding scale...the longer you are on the lower it gets, so you can't simply sit on your @rse watching your big telly!

The problem is, it's not seen as the civilised thing to let people starve even if they're lazy. It's like a parent who threatens to smack their child but never does - hard for a government to do much when pulling the safety net out from people is not a viable option politically.

Another problem is how to genuinely classify someone as lazy rather than unable to get a job. Should the latter be supported by the state or not? A case by case judgement is a big job.

[The Spartan]

Or that. Although these areas are often cheap because there's no work there which kind of defeats the point.

Well we could at least make room for the workers and cut their commuting costs

[Sysman]

I am not an expert in these things as I make it a specialty to be utterly oblivious to things around me however, is there a reason why people who have no job and are on benefits could not be found something - anything - to do for the hours of 9-5.30 with an hour for lunch. Even if it is literally painting council fences light grey and then repainting them dark grey again. Anything which keeps them in the habbit of a working day - perhaps only one adult out of the two if they have kids or something. Part of their benefit could be linked to them doing this work to an appropriate standard.

That hour for lunch can be a bastard if you are on the poverty line. Yes you can make your own sarnies, but I tried that when I was a permie and it doesn't last.

[Robinho]

This would work if the empty homes were where the jobs were. The reason rents are so high and hence unaffordable in some areas is because that's where the work is.

This is fundamentally a result of free markets being left to their own devices when government action is required to promote growth in the regions. Blaming the consequences of massive failures on the part of succesive governments on the people caught up in it, especially when many of them have moved to get work as politicians are keen to urge them to do, is ******* silly.

The free market was not left to its own devices. It was actively stoked by government monetary policies.

That's why we had a big housing boom, and that's why houses are now ridiculously overpriced. They have also not fallen in the crash as they should have done because el gov printed a load of money.

Also to add, promoting growth in the regions is futile. Regions "die" because they are no longer in competitive locations. However they will always serve some purpose as the prices of property etc will decline in these areas, meaning people will always live there and there will always be some business. They'll just be suited more to retirees etc.

[Sysman]

After being in Zurich I now realise just how cheap food is back there, working people here can't afford to spend their money with abandon when it comes to food and if you like red meat you might as well sell a kidney to pay for it.

Get thyself signed up for the emails from Denner, Coop, Migros etc. and you will find good bargains in your inbox regularly. Often the offers are just for stuff like washing powder but some weeks there are good deals on meat.

I am told that Aldi do some good quality meats at a reasonable price.

Or nip across the border to Germany. Do observe the duty free limits and keep your receipts though, to avoid getting stung on import duty.

[doodab]

Or live in areas that are less expensive perhaps? according to emptyhomes.co.uk there are at least 710,000 empty homes in the England alone

This would work if the empty homes were where the jobs were. The reason rents are so high and hence unaffordable in some areas is because that's where the work is.

This is fundamentally a result of free markets being left to their own devices when government action is required to promote growth in the regions. Blaming the consequences of massive failures on the part of succesive governments on the people caught up in it, especially when many of them have moved to get work as politicians are keen to urge them to do, is ******* silly.

[Sysman]

With all this housing benefit floating about no wonder we had a BTL boom. If they stop paying it there will be a lot of landlords going under.

Yep. I looked into BTL-ing in the mid nineties and the rents for the flats I was looking at were entirely based on what the DSS would pay a single mother.

[sasguru]

The benefits bill is not what busted Britain.
It was the vast amounts paid to bail out the too-big-to-fail financial system.
As such I would rather sort that out so it never can happen again as a priority.
Then we can discuss the benefits system.
There are people sitting in vast mansions in Cobham and Guildford who've in effect taken millions from the government. They annoy me more than some chav taking relative peanuts.

[Robinho]

Or live in areas that are less expensive perhaps? according to emptyhomes.co.uk there are at least 710,000 empty homes in the England alone

Or that. Although these areas are often cheap because there's no work there which kind of defeats the point.

[Sysman]

Only 47". And I bet it's not plasma.

Amateurs.

Weekly outgoings include £60 on food, £22.50 on TV, £3.50 on their TV licence plus utility bills, which the pair say they receive no help with.

Is that £22.50 the repayments on the telly or for Sky?

It seems an outrageous amount for someone on a low income to me.