Reply to: Fool's mission

[EternalOptimist]

If you are not allowed to the describe the detail of the ping pong, for legal reasons , just give a black box overview.
or create a puppet theatre show 'suity and sweep'

[bobspud]

So my suggestion would be to got and get a copy of sparx Enterprise Architect, then ask the bastards to install it...

Judging by your post the other week that should put you out of action for at least a month if not two

Then when they do install it, use the archimateII standard and first draw the all databases as a set of services and add the dependencies.

Once you have that you can hand it over and tell him this is how the business works.

Then you can create a functional diagram that is comprised of function boxes...

Once you have that diagram to give it to the client and say these are your functions will you please tell your staff that they need to give me the next level of detail...

Ta da! You have shown databases and application services and identified the business functional units only for the business to refuse to give you the next level of details while making it your bosses fault

[cojak]

How can there be no business processes? They may not be formal, but they must be there. User doesn't simply enter record into the system because they feel like it.

so.

What events trigger a record being created?

What does that then cause to happen? How is that controlled? (this could be 'Joan remembers she needs to chase in two days')

What events trigger a record being updated? etc.


Give us a clue - what sort of system is it?

WMSS

But why on earth are you putting this on CUK??

What happened to a little professional discretion?

[aussielong]

Another bit of background is that the last 3 incumbents all got sick of this guy and walked. I don't think I'm going to fair any better.

Bollocks. You're covering your pending flounce.

You are working with vague requirements. Deal with it. You won't always be told exactly what to do. Work out who knows something in the dept, work out the nearest sensible deliverable to what you think you've been asked for and aim for that. Get your first doc out early and iterate it.

You are constantly out of your depth- no wonder you get stressed out.

[eek]

I offered an alternative in documenting the use case, sequence diagram and data flow. They have yet to acknowledge this as acceptable.

Another bit of background is that the last 3 incumbents all got sick of this guy and walked. I don't think I'm going to fair any better.

Don't offer it. Do it and wait for them to give you feedback.

[suityou01]

Will this be another flounce?

From the gig or CUK?

[MarillionFan]

I offered an alternative in documenting the use case, sequence diagram and data flow. They have yet to acknowledge this as acceptable.

Another bit of background is that the last 3 incumbents all got sick of this guy and walked. I don't think I'm going to fair any better.

Yeah, you offered me this as well. As pretty as it is, I'm not sure it's that helpful.

[Troll]

Another bit of background is that the last 3 incumbents all got sick of this guy and walked. I don't think I'm going to fair any better.

Will this be another flounce?

[suityou01]

Well the business thinks there is something to document, so you need to a) find something to document, or b) convince them there isn't. Defining the beginning and end of the process should go some way towards achieving one of those options. Arguing about it will leave both you and them frustrated.

I offered an alternative in documenting the use case, sequence diagram and data flow. They have yet to acknowledge this as acceptable.

Another bit of background is that the last 3 incumbents all got sick of this guy and walked. I don't think I'm going to fair any better.

[MarillionFan]

Pah. No need to PM him. In he walks with his chinking spurs and gunslinger swagger.

You'd got to keep invoicing partner.

It might just work ... nice bit of thinking outside the box there

Maam.

[mudskipper]

Whoops

Sorry MS.

I'm just trying to say that there is nothing to document, so telling me how to document something that isn't there isn't much comfort. Also a teensy weensy bit patronising.

Well the business thinks there is something to document, so you need to a) find something to document, or b) convince them there isn't. Defining the beginning and end of the process should go some way towards achieving one of those options. Arguing about it will leave both you and them frustrated.

[Zippy]

Tricky at the moment as most are WFH owing to the weather. I do often sit on people's desk until they talk to me, and am no stranger in cajoling folks into action.

I have had the same advice from numerous sources, document it, make it look pretty, put a bow on it and hand it over knowing it's bollox and a waste of man hours, so thanks Zips. I have listened and understood.

I now need to learn a coping strategy for delivering tulipe without conscience. I'll PM MF about that one

Well, tto be serious, I was thinking more about people liking a good whinge. So write a 'bollox' document and you might get people queueing up to tell you why it's wrong? I'm not optimistic, but stranger things have happened.

[Zippy]

You think it will work for him?

It might just work ... nice bit of thinking outside the box there

[suityou01]

There's always something to document, you're not trying hard enough. If the manager is asking for documentation and doesn't know what it should be, make it up, it'll keep him happy, least he has something to show his boss.

Pah. No need to PM him. In he walks with his chinking spurs and gunslinger swagger.

[suityou01]

I take it you've tried the "camping out at their desks and making a pain in the arse of yourself" method?

If people have had a go at this already I'd be tempted to cobble together something based on previous work(add some nice pictures), send it round for "review" and consider the job a good 'un when they can't be arsed to comment on it.
Remember - small words, big fonts.

Tricky at the moment as most are WFH owing to the weather. I do often sit on people's desk until they talk to me, and am no stranger in cajoling folks into action.

I have had the same advice from numerous sources, document it, make it look pretty, put a bow on it and hand it over knowing it's bollox and a waste of man hours, so thanks Zips. I have listened and understood.

I now need to learn a coping strategy for delivering tulipe without conscience. I'll PM MF about that one