Reply to: Massive Mosque?

[d000hg]

Not sure if you were deliberately focusing on Asia specifically, but there are certainly Islamic nations where other religion is heavily suppressed (I'm not sure if any ban it outright). Even in the Western-influenced UAE.

[Scoobos]

It's going to take a lot more than the opinion of 1 US hack to convince me. I spent a year and saw nothing but a great example for tolerance and understanding. Reading your rant, you're basically saying that countries with >80% muslim have state sponsored ethnic cleansing, which is complete racist tosh.

Muslim, Hindu and Christian places of worship all on the same street, in most cities in Malaysia. Indonesia also has a large Hindu community who live integrated with the Muslim majority. A lot of hindus do live on the islands though.

Following the Bali bombings , the Indonesian community has pretty much shown us which side of the fence they sit on when it comes to extremism and terrorism.

But here we go, still focusing on the religion issue rather than the issue that these guys in London are dodgy and need treating with caution . I was also shocked to learn that some of their members are local council members too.

Oh and +1 minestrone someone please? "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to minestrone again."

[Andy2]

I've lived in some of those "state sponsored terroism" countries you list, such as Indonesia and Malaysia and saw and heard of nothing of the sort.

But thanks for at least showing what racism really is.

I dont think a rich white man will experience any racism in asia
but local non muslims face these problems

John R. Malott: The Price of Malaysia's Racism - WSJ.com

[formant]

Christianity to me is about living your life like Jesus, that is what Christianity means really, it has never been about nativity inventions or bible epics with big screen actors in big boats.

Now if some arsehole wants to blow himelf up in the name of whatever God he follows please do not think that I subscride to total absolution for his God.

Do me the service to understand all religions before commenting on a religion and following that up with an opinion on all religions.

Ah, so you get to pass your judgement on Islam as a whole based on the actions of some deranged nutters. That's like people judging Christianity by the actions of Anders Breivik. What Christianity is to you and who is and isn't doing it right is pretty irrelevant unless you approach Islam with the same differentiating attitude. That doesn't seem to be the case.

[Scoobos]

" Quite a bit of tosh.

I've lived in some of those "state sponsored terroism" countries you list, such as Indonesia and Malaysia and saw and heard of nothing of the sort.

But thanks for at least showing what racism really is.

[vetran]

Where do lawyers fit in?

well without Politicians & priests there would be no one to tell us stringing up lawyers is a bad thing. Lawyers & Radio DJs could all swing, think of it as 'the big society'.

[minestrone]

Cause danger to others including blocking access to emergency vehicles,

can you give me specific examples of this?

Maybe you would care to offer me some situation where by religious observence has caused some kind of emergency in your street to be exarcebated, please do tell us all.

[SueEllen]

To be honest you have always sounded like a slapper with loose morals.

Just because I don't think people should park to:
1. Cause a nuisance so people have to squeeze around vehicles, and
2. Cause danger to others including blocking access to emergency vehicles,
while they worship their God doesn't mean I have loose morals.

[d000hg]

As explained in my previous comment there are a limited number of 'sweeping generalisations' one can legitimately make about most groups that people join by choice. In the case of religious faith that's the 'believing without evidence' thing for example.

We're at cross-purposes. I'm talking about how labeling people in some group, WHATEVER group, is bad. N.I. Protestants hate a family "because they're Catholic" but don't know why being Catholic is bad. Celtic fans hate Rangers fans and view them as scum/

I'm impressed that you agree with me on the matter of 'choice', as the more common response I get to that is vehement denial of this - many seeing (their) religion more as 'the only thing that's right', or their 'calling'.

I think there is only one truth. But it's a choice to follow it.

[minestrone]

As explained in my previous comment there are a limited number of 'sweeping generalisations' one can legitimately make about most groups that people join by choice. In the case of religious faith that's the 'believing without evidence' thing for example. That alone sets a dangerous precedent to me, because once someone believes without evidence in one context they're likely to also do that in another. That's the bit I then dislike about religious people. They may otherwise be decent, likeable people, but I find that point difficult to disregard entirely. That doesn't mean I actively dislike every single religious person, as there is indeed a lot more to people than just their faith or lack of such.

I'm impressed that you agree with me on the matter of 'choice', as the more common response I get to that is vehement denial of this - many seeing (their) religion more as 'the only thing that's right', or their 'calling'.

I see that post as a whoosh but I will divy up my thoughts on this on the paralax view of religion my religion has given me on religion.

Christianity to me is about living your life like Jesus, that is what Christianity means really, it has never been about nativity inventions or bible epics with big screen actors in big boats.

Now if some arsehole wants to blow himelf up in the name of whatever God he follows please do not think that I subscride to total absolution for his God.

Do me the service to understand all religions before commenting on a religion and following that up with an opinion on all religions.

[formant]

I meant that drawing sweeping generalisations about people based on a single fact about them allows groups to objectify each other... "beat him up, he's a Catholic"... "who cares he's a City supporter", etc..

As explained in my previous comment there are a limited number of 'sweeping generalisations' one can legitimately make about most groups that people join by choice. In the case of religious faith that's the 'believing without evidence' thing for example. That alone sets a dangerous precedent to me, because once someone believes without evidence in one context they're likely to also do that in another. That's the bit I then dislike about religious people. They may otherwise be decent, likeable people, but I find that point difficult to disregard entirely. That doesn't mean I actively dislike every single religious person, as there is indeed a lot more to people than just their faith or lack of such.

I'm impressed that you agree with me on the matter of 'choice', as the more common response I get to that is vehement denial of this - many seeing (their) religion more as 'the only thing that's right', or their 'calling'.

[d000hg]

I meant that drawing sweeping generalisations about people based on a single fact about them allows groups to objectify each other... "beat him up, he's a Catholic"... "who cares he's a City supporter", etc.

That's a prime cause of violence and hatred between groups.

And as for 'doing it properly' well then yes it seems we do disagree on the term 'religious'. I view someone as religious if they made a choice (which as you say is what it is) to actively follow a religion, not if they were born to religious parents or would claim to be an <insert religion>-ian.

[formant]

It's always good to make judgements about people based on some aggregated fact such as colour, religion, football team they support, it makes it much easier to hate a group when you don't allow them to become people.

Religion (much like favourite football club and very much unlike colour) is a choice. Just as much as you'll be able to draw a few (very trivial) conclusions from someone's favourite football team, you can generalise about people's choice and desire to believe something without evidence and to seek a community framework in which to practice this. These things simply have nothing to do with the rest of a person's character - that can still be ever so great or ever so rubbish or something in between.

And what is it with this inflammatory misquoting? 'Hate' is a pretty strong word that I did not and would not use here.

Doubtful, unless your understanding of 'religious person' means someone who ticks 'Christian' on forms and goes to church for the carols.

Ah, of course, those who aren't doing it 'properly' cannot be counted as part of your group.
Not a whole lot of 'real Christians' around in that case. Or 'real *insertotherreligionhere*s' for that matter.

[formant]

I think the fallacious argument is that only religion makes good people do bad things.

Has any one said that here? The 'only' bit? The more common (and equally fallacious) claim tends to come from the other side, who frequently enough believe that you need religion (their particular one) to be a good person.

[d000hg]

Nah, just those who can't keep their faith to themselves.

Should have phrased this as disliking all religious groups and their objectives equally, I don't actually care about the individuals.

It's always good to make judgements about people based on some aggregated fact such as colour, religion, football team they support, it makes it much easier to hate a group when you don't allow them to become people.

I actually know a hell of a lot more about religion and religious practice than the average religious fella (that isn't hard though).

Doubtful, unless your understanding of 'religious person' means someone who ticks 'Christian' on forms and goes to church for the carols.