Reply to: ICT Visa route news in parliament today

[mos]

And looking on the bright side, we can start sinking Spanish & French fishing boats.

[swamp]

Exactly, the UK is a big market for the EU and they would be pretty daft to lose the free access they have by imposing tariffs or whatever. I just get a bit tired of the old what can the UK do for Europe arguements, it should be what can they do for us.

We buy German cars and French wine. German cars don't count because they are made in the USA or over here. The French will sell their wine to the Chinese instead, or they will ask the EU for some extra subsidies so they can pour it down the drain. We do buy a lot of vegetables from the Spanish, and I guess they will complain about high tariffs, but they will be the only ones.

[alluvial]

The point is that they would not do that.

It goes against their interests for one thing, and for another they would look foolish. The EU trades with all other big economies in the world.

Exactly, the UK is a big market for the EU and they would be pretty daft to lose the free access they have by imposing tariffs or whatever. I just get a bit tired of the old what can the UK do for Europe arguements, it should be what can they do for us.

[Doggy Styles]

If the EU turn around and say we're not going to be allowed into any free trade agreement, then tough.

The point is that they would not do that.

It goes against their interests for one thing, and for another they would look foolish. The EU trades with all other big economies in the world.

[alluvial]

Oh dear, this is not a Parish council sulking competition. the practical realities are that the UK is the second largest economy within the EU and has extensive links to commonwealth countries and shares the same language as the worlds largest economy. The UK also has closer ties to North America than any EU country. None of this is exclusive. France has connections too with the Commonwealth and the USa so none of this is "exclusive".
If Britain leaves the EU it will not be simply a matter of "punishing" the UK because a great many businesses are inter relient on each other so although they EU may for instance wish to impose trade barriers on the UK they will do so at the expense of cutting off their own noses and breaching WTO rules.
The UK will lose what (little) influence it has with Europe to no doubt considerable detriment to itself but the benefits will also be considerable in that we will not be pumping vast amounts of money into EU gravy trains or submitting our laws to the unelected bureaucrats within the European courts.
There are so many factors at play here and to say it is a matter of finding "exclusive" reasons for Britain to remain/leave the EU is frankly ridiculous.

WDAS

There are a great many reasons for leaving the EU and I can't see any compelling reasons to remain in it.
If the EU turn around and say we're not going to be allowed into any free trade agreement, then tough. It's a bigger world than Europe out there and the UK has a lot of established links to it already.
If the EU don't want to play with us, we can take out ball and play elsewhere and the EU can have all their economic, benefits and medical migrants back and start to pay them from their much reduced budgets.

I'm voting UKIP next time by the way.

[Doggy Styles]

Oh dear, this is not a Parish council sulking competition. the practical realities are that the UK is the second largest economy within the EU and has extensive links to commonwealth countries and shares the same language as the worlds largest economy. The UK also has closer ties to North America than any EU country. None of this is exclusive. France has connections too with the Commonwealth and the USa so none of this is "exclusive".
If Britain leaves the EU it will not be simply a matter of "punishing" the UK because a great many businesses are inter relient on each other so although they EU may for instance wish to impose trade barriers on the UK they will do so at the expense of cutting off their own noses and breaching WTO rules.
The UK will lose what (little) influence it has with Europe to no doubt considerable detriment to itself but the benefits will also be considerable in that we will not be pumping vast amounts of money into EU gravy trains or submitting our laws to the unelected bureaucrats within the European courts.
There are so many factors at play here and to say it is a matter of finding "exclusive" reasons for Britain to remain/leave the EU is frankly ridiculous.

I can't argue with the tenet of that. There might be a lot of noise but the talk of 'punishment' is a bit naive, it doesn't work like that.

And the Europeans should look on the bright side - if we left altogether they can finally cancel our rebate!

[DodgyAgent]

Nope, you still don't get it. I think and you think that Britain is a valuable trading partner for the EU and should in the case of exiting be given a free trade agreement and I would argue, just as UKIP, that that agreement should be similar to that which Switzerland (and Norway incidentally) enjoys. But you'll have to convince arrogant Frogs, very conservative Germans, corrupt Italian and Spanish politicians to join in this eminently sensible arrangement. The Frogs still think the French language matters beyond a few porno films, the Italians and the Spanish still think their military powers are worth more than a fart in a hurricane, and the Germans think they're God's gift to Europe, so as they see it there won't be advantages to doing a deal on free trade with Britain. They're wrong, but that's not the point; they'll have to be convinced.

There is one point though; the Germans and the Dutch want the Brits in the EU OR some other European agreement because otherwise they're surrounded by idiots and feel rather uncomfortable. So there; I've answered my own question of what Britain brings to the table; (sometimes, as long as labour aren't in power) sensible chums for the Dutch and the Germans, and that's why those guys will posture on TV, but behind the scenes they'll do all they can to persuade the Brits to stay in. Trouble is, if UKIP are in power with Nigel 'I get a hard on from insulting people' Farage, the Germans and the Dutch will conclude that the Brits are idiots too, and you can forget the cushy free trade deals.

Oh dear, this is not a Parish council sulking competition. the practical realities are that the UK is the second largest economy within the EU and has extensive links to commonwealth countries and shares the same language as the worlds largest economy. The UK also has closer ties to North America than any EU country. None of this is exclusive. France has connections too with the Commonwealth and the USa so none of this is "exclusive".
If Britain leaves the EU it will not be simply a matter of "punishing" the UK because a great many businesses are inter relient on each other so although they EU may for instance wish to impose trade barriers on the UK they will do so at the expense of cutting off their own noses and breaching WTO rules.
The UK will lose what (little) influence it has with Europe to no doubt considerable detriment to itself but the benefits will also be considerable in that we will not be pumping vast amounts of money into EU gravy trains or submitting our laws to the unelected bureaucrats within the European courts.
There are so many factors at play here and to say it is a matter of finding "exclusive" reasons for Britain to remain/leave the EU is frankly ridiculous.

[mos]

It's not going to happen anyway. Labour will probably win the next election, even if the Conservatives join forces with UKIP. And Labour won't hold a referendum on leaving the EU.

Sadly neither they will hold a referendum on the ICT Visas.

[mos]

They are pretending its on the agenda, much like Cameron pretended he would cut immigration. Has he done so? Nope.

WHS x 2

[swamp]

It's not going to happen anyway. Labour will probably win the next election, even if the Conservatives join forces with UKIP. And Labour won't hold a referendum on leaving the EU.

[Mich the Tester]

I meant the EU. It still bears no relevance to the question of what will happen if Britain leaves the EU. It is nothing to do with "exclusive benefits" that britain brings it is to do with an aggregation of all benefits and disadvantages of Britain being out of the Eu

Nope, you still don't get it. I think and you think that Britain is a valuable trading partner for the EU and should in the case of exiting be given a free trade agreement and I would argue, just as UKIP, that that agreement should be similar to that which Switzerland (and Norway incidentally) enjoys. But you'll have to convince arrogant Frogs, very conservative Germans, corrupt Italian and Spanish politicians to join in this eminently sensible arrangement. The Frogs still think the French language matters beyond a few porno films, the Italians and the Spanish still think their military powers are worth more than a fart in a hurricane, and the Germans think they're God's gift to Europe, so as they see it there won't be advantages to doing a deal on free trade with Britain. They're wrong, but that's not the point; they'll have to be convinced.

There is one point though; the Germans and the Dutch want the Brits in the EU OR some other European agreement because otherwise they're surrounded by idiots and feel rather uncomfortable. So there; I've answered my own question of what Britain brings to the table; (sometimes, as long as labour aren't in power) sensible chums for the Dutch and the Germans, and that's why those guys will posture on TV, but behind the scenes they'll do all they can to persuade the Brits to stay in. Trouble is, if UKIP are in power with Nigel 'I get a hard on from insulting people' Farage, the Germans and the Dutch will conclude that the Brits are idiots too, and you can forget the cushy free trade deals.

[d000hg]

You preaching again?

No.

HTH.

:nazi:

[escapeUK]

Well all those UKIP votes have put the EU exit on the agenda.

They are pretending its on the agenda, much like Cameron pretended he would cut immigration. Has he done so? Nope.

[swamp]

If voting actually made a difference the people in charge would ban it.

Well all those UKIP votes have put the EU exit on the agenda.

[escapeUK]

I find UKIP rather positive. Saving what's left of our national democracy is worth a vote IMO.

If voting actually made a difference the people in charge would ban it.