Reply to: On religion

[speling bee]

That sounds wrong to me - its old law.

It's good enough for doohgie.

[BrilloPad]

So you are also guided by Deut 24:1-4

That sounds wrong to me - its old law.

[EternalOptimist]

So you are also guided by Deut 24:1-4

'If a man marries a woman who becomes displeasing to him*because he finds something indecent about her, and he writes her a certificate of divorce,gives it to her and sends her from his house,*2*and if after she leaves his house she becomes the wife of another man,3*and her second husband dislikes her and writes her a certificate of divorce, gives it to her and sends her from his house, or if he dies,*4*then her first husband, who divorced her, is not allowed to marry her again after she has been defiled. That would be detestable in the eyes of the*Lord. Do not bring sin upon the land the*Lord*your God is giving you as an inheritance. '

transl EO v k12

If youse bin-bags a bird because she f@rts in bed, and she cops with some other bloke. The HE bin-bags her, sloppy seconds is a bad idea. In the land of the LORD.

[speling bee]

You are right - it's not for us to judge because God will do it. Telling us not to judge people is not the same as saying that what they are doing is wrong.

In the famous "who is without sin cast the first stone" incident, Jesus does not in anyway say the woman hasn't sinned.

Gen 2:22
Deut 24:5
Mat 19:4
1 Cor 7:1 (this is by Paul)
Heb 13:4
Mark 10:6

You should be able to type those directly into biblegateway.com or even directly into Google.

So you are also guided by Deut 24:1-4

If a man marries a woman who becomes displeasing to him*because he finds something indecent about her, and he writes her a certificate of divorce,gives it to her and sends her from his house,*2*and if after she leaves his house she becomes the wife of another man,3*and her second husband dislikes her and writes her a certificate of divorce, gives it to her and sends her from his house, or if he dies,*4*then her first husband, who divorced her, is not allowed to marry her again after she has been defiled. That would be detestable in the eyes of the*Lord. Do not bring sin upon the land the*Lord*your God is giving you as an inheritance.

[d000hg]

There is a tone. Judge not etc.

You are right - it's not for us to judge because God will do it. Telling us not to judge people is not the same as saying that what they are doing is wrong.

In the famous "who is without sin cast the first stone" incident, Jesus does not in anyway say the woman hasn't sinned.

Also, what are these biblical teachings on marriage?

Gen 2:22
Deut 24:5
Mat 19:4
1 Cor 7:1 (this is by Paul)
Heb 13:4
Mark 10:6

You should be able to type those directly into biblegateway.com or even directly into Google.

[speling bee]

So what? He never talked about murder either. I'm not sure he even told people not to commit adultery. He didn't feel the need to start from scratch with what was or wasn't right, because the Old Testament was already written.
His jobs were to teach the new bits, and to die.

There is a tone. Judge not etc.

Also, what are these biblical teachings on marriage?

[d000hg]

So what? He never talked about murder either. I'm not sure he even told people not to commit adultery. He didn't feel the need to start from scratch with what was or wasn't right, because the Old Testament was already written.
His jobs were to teach the new bits, and to die.

[speling bee]

From one verse?

I don't imagine he was either but that's because I agree with biblical teachings on marriage and expect Paul would too, rather than because he explicitly talks about it. It might not be a subject that he really had an opinion on, being a bit busy organising the church

Jesus didn't have much to say about it. What are these biblical teachings?

[d000hg]

From one verse?

I don't imagine he was either but that's because I agree with biblical teachings on marriage and expect Paul would too, rather than because he explicitly talks about it. It might not be a subject that he really had an opinion on, being a bit busy organising the church

[speling bee]

Sorry that one totally slipped my mind!

It's ambiguous whether Paul is being anti-gay in that verse. I heard a good argument recently (from a gay Christian) that he's really criticising their wanton lustfulness and easy sex... "they were so depraved they even did it with people of the same sex".

Take it how you will - arf.

I don't get the impression Paul was cool with homosexuality.

[d000hg]

Sorry that one totally slipped my mind!

It's ambiguous whether Paul is being anti-gay in that verse. I heard a good argument recently (from a gay Christian) that he's really criticising their wanton lustfulness and easy sex... "they were so depraved they even did it with people of the same sex". The fact it talks about them leaving normal relationships suggests they are straight people having an orgy, more akin to men in boarding schools or prison.

But why would this be anti-Jesus? Jesus never said no other teaching but his words was valid. He was accused of subverting Judaism but only by those trying to pin crimes on him to get him in trouble. Hence Pilate wondering what exactly Jesus had done.

[speling bee]

I don't recall Paul teaching on sexuality. He does teach on marriage and gender roles quite a lot, and this clashes with our modern (Western) secular view that everyone has to be exactly able to do the same things regardless of gender, disability, or ability. It's very easy to read his teachings as denigrating women but I think he is simply teaching that men and women are different, which I agree with.
Of course as always people have taken his teachings and distorted them to their own ends in order to make women subservient or of lower status, I don't think Paul can be blamed for this.

The stuff from 1 Romans. It doesn't seem to spring front the whole Jesus thing.
Homosexuality in the New Testament - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[d000hg]

It's so on since I formed my views on Paul I can barely remember where they originate.

But from memory... it always struck me that Paul took the teachings of Jesus - cast not the first stone, judge not etc. and stuck this whole gender and sexuality bulltulip on top, which is still getting people oppressed and even killed in some parts of the world.

I don't recall Paul teaching on sexuality. He does teach on marriage and gender roles quite a lot, and this clashes with our modern (Western) secular view that everyone has to be exactly able to do the same things regardless of gender, disability, or ability. It's very easy to read his teachings as denigrating women but I think he is simply teaching that men and women are different, which I agree with.
Of course as always people have taken his teachings and distorted them to their own ends in order to make women subservient or of lower status, I don't think Paul can be blamed for this.

[PorkPie]

On translation mistakes:

The world's worst typos

[speling bee]

I'm interested: based on what? I'm currently reading Dunn's "The Theology of Paul the Apostle", and find the old geezer comes across as an intelligent, humble, humane and fairly decent chap.

And often misinterpreted...

It's so on since I formed my views on Paul I can barely remember where they originate.

But from memory... it always struck me that Paul took the teachings of Jesus - cast not the first stone, judge not etc. and stuck this whole gender and sexuality bulltulip on top, which is still getting people oppressed and even killed in some parts of the world.