Reply to: MPs' shock at BBC tax deals - Workers paid via personal service companies

[Sysman]

Slightly off topic but some of the rules on employees/otherwise are stupid. According to my daughter in law (a high earner when she can work) she can't employ a nanny to work in her home without administering PAYE. PAYE should be for companies with a minimum high turnover.

There's a lot of red tape to discourage you from doing things the "proper way".

A fellow contractor who had half a dozen employees decided it might be a good idea to give someone a chance with one of the youth opportunity schemes back in the 1980s. He found a couple of suitable young lads, but was so frustrated by the elf 'n' safety crowd who wanted to inspect his premises, see timesheet records etc. that he nearly packed the idea in.

Meanwhile my local double glazing company was abusing that same system to get cheap labour then saying to each and every hopeful trainee "Sorry, not suitable for a full time job" once the allotted time was up. Then getting another bunch of recruits in at the cheap rate.

[xoggoth]

Slightly off topic but some of the rules on employees/otherwise are stupid. According to my daughter in law (a high earner when she can work) she can't employ a nanny to work in her home without administering PAYE. PAYE should be for companies with a minimum high turnover.

[SueEllen]

That's called chickening out of employer's NI (short term), offering employment rights (long term), and pensions (long term).

It also saves the license payer money particularly in redundancy pay and fighting tribunal cases over unfair dismissal.

[Sysman]

"The Newsnight presenter insisted the BBC had ‘required me to form a company if I wanted to continue to present Newsnight. It claimed it had been told to do so by the HMRC’"

It would be funny if that is proven to be true.

That's called chickening out of employer's NI (short term), offering employment rights (long term), and pensions (long term).

[xoggoth]

Hmm, if only governments would 'minimise the tax gap' by pissing less money into the wind and 'change the economics' by spending the money they've got instead of always running out of other people's money

Quite. For the above I forgive you your comments on The Sacred Daily Mail.

[escapeUK]

WHS. Paid significantly more tax in first year of contracting than I did in my last year of permie.

But of course NI is just tax with another name to make it harder to understand just how much the state robs from people.

[mudskipper]

But that's the point, they earn more than a permie and they pay more tax, when you factor in ALL the taxes. I pay a lot more tax earning £90k as a contractor than I would if I was earning £45k as a permie, although my NI bill is **** all.

WHS. Paid significantly more tax in first year of contracting than I did in my last year of permie.

[NickFitz]

The Beeb News site has a worked example: BBC News - Viewpoint: Can personal service companies save you tax?

Bit unrealistic not counting expenses, but still, something to point people at that explains how things work, at least partly.

[doodab]

That's the point, that many of the people employed through PSCs ARE basically doing a perm job.

For instance most of the main radio 1 DJs are 'freelance', they mention sometimes how they don't get paid for sick days but they are still effectively employed.

Please don't pretend you can't pay the same % tax when you're earning twice as much as the permies, just because you don't get sick/holiday pay.
Besides paying less TAX due to lack of employment rights is daft, they are two separate things. You should earn more from your client to cover the higher risks/costs, not pay less tax to HMRC.

But that's the point, they earn more than a permie and they pay more tax, when you factor in ALL the taxes. I pay a lot more tax earning £90k as a contractor than I would if I was earning £45k as a permie, although my NI bill is **** all.

[DodgyAgent]

[Ignis Fatuus]

Yup.

I wonder if the Old Liebour would have won in 64 if he'd still been PM rather than Sir Alec Douglas Home.

Possibly not, since Mac was a classic one-nation Tory, committed to social progress. Douglas Home OTOH was simply embalmed.

[Ignis Fatuus]

Harold McMillan was right all along.

Except when he retired as PM in 1963 believing that he was near death from cancer, then actually lived until 1986.

[Ignis Fatuus]

Just imagine, if people who don't know what they're on about were all made to shut up, there'd be only 2 or 3 tv channels, 2 radio stations, no 'reality tv' and programs on TV with people who DO know what they're on about telling you stuff you didn't know beforehand. What kind of strange world would that be?

1957. We've never had it so good.

[speling bee]

Erm, is 50,000 pounds a lot for skilled people working in London? I don't think so.

But it is in their eyes £220 pd, the magic number for public sector contracting.

[hyperD]

Just imagine, if people who don't know what they're on about were all made to shut up, there'd be only 2 or 3 tv channels, 2 radio stations, no 'reality tv' and programs on TV with people who DO know what they're on about telling you stuff you didn't know beforehand. What kind of strange world would that be?

It's my strange world and it's very nice. I don't watch TV and the despicable dumbed down bias news nonsense nor listen to the inane banter on the radio nor read opinionpapers.

You find your quality of life improves drastically.