Reply to: Lest we forget - ANZAC Day

[Scoobos]

I have been to oz half a dozen times for a month at a stretch and travelled all over.

If you are telling me that I am wrong, then I accept that, maybe I listened to too much telly and radio, and paid too much attention to the bush fire losses that occurred because the townies were not allowed to back burn. Maybe I listened too much to rudd and gilliard.
I'll keep on listening to you scooby, keep talking

Ooooooooo

Try living there for a long period of time (years) and making real aussie friends - If you believe everything you heard on british TV and the mail, you'd probably think the same about us.

I was living in NSW when the fires happened, it was awful - the FIRE BRIGADE do the backburning... It was a "hoon" townie kid starting his own fires that started the whole thing in some places - or bloody volunteer fire brigade starting fires to give themselves a thrill being called to put them out. In my opinion, back burning had little to do with the ones in 2008/09 if thats what you are referring to.



We are allowed to have different opinions you know, it doesnt have to be IM RIGHT YOU'RE WRONG.... I was complimenting you too.

[Troll]

They often refer to the "Asian Invasion" , are even turning on pommies and absolutely bloody hate "coffee coloured" people.

We decided not to stay in Aus because of this "small pond" mentality

Well we don't want you here either....sling yer hook

[NickFitz]

When I was a young man I carried me pack
And I lived the free life of the rover
From the Murray's green basin to the dusty outback
I waltzed my Matilda all over
Then in 1915 my country said: Son,
It's time to stop rambling, there's work to be done
So they gave me a tin hat and they gave me a gun
And they sent me away to the war

And the band played Waltzing Matilda
When the ship pulled away from the quay
And amid all the tears, flag waving and cheers
We sailed off for Gallipoli

It's well I remember that terrible day
When our blood stained the sand and the water
And how in that hell they call Suvla Bay
We were butchered like lambs at the slaughter
Johnny Turk, he was ready, he'd primed himself well
He rained us with bullets, and he showered us with shell
And in five minutes flat, we were all blown to hell
He nearly blew us back home to Australia

And the band played Waltzing Matilda
When we stopped to bury our slain
Well we buried ours and the Turks buried theirs
Then it started all over again

Oh those that were living just tried to survive
In that mad world of blood, death and fire
And for ten weary weeks I kept myself alive
While around me the corpses piled higher
Then a big Turkish shell knocked me arse over head
And when I awoke in me hospital bed
And saw what it had done, I wished I was dead
I never knew there was worse things than dying

Oh no more I'll go Waltzing Matilda
All around the green bush far and near
For to hump tent and pegs, a man needs both legs
No more waltzing Matilda for me

They collected the wounded, the crippled, the maimed
And they shipped us back home to Australia
The armless, the legless, the blind and the insane
Those proud wounded heroes of Suvla
And when the ship pulled into Circular Quay
I looked at the place where me legs used to be
And thank Christ there was no one there waiting for me
To grieve and to mourn and to pity

And the Band played Waltzing Matilda
When they carried us down the gangway
Oh nobody cheered, they just stood there and stared
Then they turned all their faces away

Now every April I sit on my porch
And I watch the parade pass before me
I see my old comrades, how proudly they march
Renewing their dreams of past glories
I see the old men all tired, stiff and worn
Those weary old heroes of a forgotten war
And the young people ask "What are they marching for?"
And I ask myself the same question

And the band plays Waltzing Matilda
And the old men still answer the call
But year after year, their numbers get fewer
Someday, no one will march there at all

Waltzing Matilda, Waltzing Matilda
Who'll come a-Waltzing Matilda with me?
And their ghosts may be heard as you pass by the billabong
So who'll come a-Waltzing Matilda with me?

Copyright © Eric Bogle

[EternalOptimist]

Just wanted to write in reply to you Eternal Optimist to say thanks for typing all that out, I feel like I've learnt something , as you know your stuff!

Regarding the PC side though, I have to completely disagree - I found the average guy on the street to be incredibly racist, "Sling em out" was heard very often indeed.

They often refer to the "Asian Invasion" , are even turning on pommies and absolutely bloody hate "coffee coloured" people.

If thats turning the under 18s to PC maybe, but nearly ALL the people I know (and some are really good friends) are certainly not PC.

We decided not to stay in Aus because of this "small pond" mentality - its a tiny bit of europe surrounded by asia and it feels like that - I can't blame them for some of their racist sentiments but I couldnt join in, having grown up in Europe.

my comments regarding the PC culture come from direct observation. I have been to oz half a dozen times for a month at a stretch and travelled all over.
I have commented here before that I detected 4 distinct cultures in the country
Metropolitan white
rural White
towny aboriginal
rural aboriginal

the metropolitan whites are the ones I mentioned above, horrible PC shadows of their fathers.
If you are telling me that I am wrong, then I accept that, maybe I listened to too much telly and radio, and paid too much attention to the bush fire losses that occurred because the townies were not allowed to back burn. Maybe I listened too much to rudd and gilliard.
I'll keep on listening to you scooby, keep talking

[Scoobos]

Just wanted to write in reply to you Eternal Optimist to say thanks for typing all that out, I feel like I've learnt something , as you know your stuff!

Regarding the PC side though, I have to completely disagree - I found the average guy on the street to be incredibly racist, "Sling em out" was heard very often indeed.

They often refer to the "Asian Invasion" , are even turning on pommies and absolutely bloody hate "coffee coloured" people.

If thats turning the under 18s to PC maybe, but nearly ALL the people I know (and some are really good friends) are certainly not PC.

We decided not to stay in Aus because of this "small pond" mentality - its a tiny bit of europe surrounded by asia and it feels like that - I can't blame them for some of their racist sentiments but I couldnt join in, having grown up in Europe.

[EternalOptimist]

Lest we forget! Indeed, the French suffered just as many losses as the ANZACs too.

One of the reasons the Dardanelles campaign has become a focus for Australia and New Zealand is that as a percentage of their total population, the ANZAC countries suffered very heavy losses with huge social and economic impacts. Many Australians (and to a lesser extent, New Zealanders) see the event as something of a sort of coming of age for their nation.

And on this day, we will remember them...

darned right.

and what no one takes into account, is that in the british armed forces in WWII, most of their strength was in the navy (the blue water policy), so when considering British army losses, you have to take that into account too.
Most aussies and kiwis at the time understood the British and commonwealth sacrifice and strategic gamble, but the latest batch of aussies are a flipping disgrace, both to their ancestors and to their country. They have become the most PC bunch of toss pots the western world has ever seen.
its a disgrace

[Wanderer]

Did you know.... The UK suffered more casualties in Gallipoli than ANZ

Lest we forget! Indeed, the French suffered just as many losses as the ANZACs too.

One of the reasons the Dardanelles campaign has become a focus for Australia and New Zealand is that as a percentage of their total population, the ANZAC countries suffered very heavy losses with huge social and economic impacts. Many Australians (and to a lesser extent, New Zealanders) see the event as something of a sort of coming of age for their nation.

And on this day, we will remember them...

[Troll]

How and why did Australia's relationship with Britain and the US change during World War 2

Strewth Bluey....
That lot make the Scots look amicable!

[EternalOptimist]

It's not my opinion. I heard a lot from Aussies I worked with and also the older people I met, they really seem to think that they were left out to dry until the Americans saved them.

The problem for the australians is that the war in Europe started first.
The main regular Australian divisions were committed to the middle east and the med well before the Japanese joined in.
Then the Brits made a calculated strategic decison, the japs might get the islands, even new guinea, but australia was impossible, for logistical reasons. They were absolutely right , but the aussies got a bit nervous with nothing between sydney and tokyo except a few WWI cruisers.

What the latest generation of whinging aussies forget, is that many Brits fought thousands of miles from home, when the Germans were threatening invasion from twenty miles away.

The aussies were not left out to dry, the risk was tiny, and after the japs entered the war, the aussies formed new divisions that fought brilliantly in New guinea and then onwards through the island chains

[Scoobos]

I had a quick read. It doesn't seem like that to me:

Battle of Singapore - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The fall of Singapore

130,000 troops captured, mostly British. 14,000 Aussies got captured.

From what I understand they were expecting the invasion from the sea, but got overrun on the Malayan peninsula.

It's not my opinion. I heard a lot from Aussies I worked with and also the older people I met, they really seem to think that they were left out to dry until the Americans saved them.

Ah after a quick search I remember what annoyed them now, it was that they believed after the fall of singapore that they were forced to go fight and die in Europe rather than look after their own country. They were basically told to go fight for the UK when they knew that the Japanese were coming and Heavy casualties in Darwin when their forces were in mainland europe really annoyed.

The concensus in Darwin was that Churchill / the commonwealth thought losing Australia was worthwhile, in order to protect the "Motherland"

I quickly found this, which is repeating what I was hearing (I think its the common thinking, but I could be mistaken)

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_and_wh...ng_World_War_2

[Spacecadet]

From what I understand they were expecting the invasion from the sea, but got overrun on the Malayan peninsula.

Correct, The Japanese forces arrived on bicycle!

[BlasterBates]

but did very little to protect the islands in WW2 (We left singapore to fall without effort, by most of my aussie mates' opinions).

I had a quick read. It doesn't seem like that to me:

Battle of Singapore - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The fall of Singapore

130,000 troops captured, mostly British. 14,000 Aussies got captured.

From what I understand they were expecting the invasion from the sea, but got overrun on the Malayan peninsula.

[DodgyAgent]

no objections on that count here

And "your" contractors work with you, not for you...

Bloody agents I lub you really dodgy

They can do what they like as long as I get my %

[Scoobos]

no objections on that count here

And "your" contractors work with you, not for you...

Bloody agents I lub you really dodgy

[DodgyAgent]

cheers for reminding me that today Im in the UK getting rained on, last ANZAC day I was in the rocks sydney sinking a "Day off work" beer

Down under I think theres strong feeling about gallipoli because the general sentiment is that the commonwealth ordered troops to certain suicide; but did very little to protect the islands in WW2 (We left singapore to fall without effort, by most of my aussie mates' opinions).

I think that ANZAC day should be a bank holiday here too - solidarity and all that. Oh and an excuse to get really really drunk in honor of the lost men.

I think any more bank holidays should be taken as unpaid leave. (except for my contractors that is )