Reply to: I don't want to sound like an unsympathetic sexist git......

[Zoiderman]

That's kind of the point. Taxes are paid to provide us all with roads and bin-men and doctors and teachers.

I know, do keep up. Do we use toll roads as we can afford to? Bin men is a delusional obfuscation. Doctors and teacher? Mine are all private thank you. Because I can afford it.

Again, your sense of entitlement is unbelievable. What would god do? I mean, that he's left all us heathens and non believers to have to deal with thsi tulip ourselves, and saved all of you believers is..... Oh, hang on...

[d000hg]

..and herein lies the problem; you believe as you pay taxes, you have a right to something

That's kind of the point. Taxes are paid to provide us all with roads and bin-men and doctors and teachers.

[Zoiderman]

That's right I do have a sense of entitlement - to the healthcare my taxes entitle me to.

..and herein lies the problem; you believe as you pay taxes, you have a right to something, even though, as a contractor, you earn in excess of triple (I am hedging low for you, for the obvious reasons) the national average.

No wonder the countries in strife with ***** like you about

[Zoiderman]

Well it's just lucky a pig-ignorant vicious git like you isn't running things then.

I agree...

[d000hg]

That's right I do have a sense of entitlement - to the healthcare my taxes entitle me to.

Well done keeping the thread going so long before descending to personal attacks, the last resort of the floundering participant in a debate.

[Zoiderman]

Stealing from the Labour quote book now?

But the poor old dear might need a hip-op because she did a lot of sport when young and wore it out. And the poor grandad with the heart problem might have spent his life on the sofa.

Maybe you should move to a country which doesn't have all these things, like UAE.

You are a bit of a twat aren't you?

The quote is mine, although I don't really care if it wasn't, it's a good point. Even a cock like you must understand the difference between someone ciming in aged 25 with a broken finger and an old dear who's worn out her hips? Or are you that dense you can't?

I had a very good friend who found he had a congenital heart defect, fit as a butchers dog but aged 38 had to have a quad bypass. That's something the NHS should be used for. He had to wait for it mind, which is my point; why should he, just because surgery time is also booked for the ortho to fix young lads ligaments through sport, broken bones through fighting. It's your sense of entitlement thats acutely wrong here.

[d000hg]

And I disagree with it. Why the **** should some poor old dear have to wait an extra 3 weeks for her hip surgery as theres a backlog in knee operations due to some sportmen having ACL rebuilds? It's just wrong. There is only so much surgery time in hospitals and chaffing it all up with sports injuries is wrong. You should, if you can afford it, go private or get bumped down the list every time someone who genuinely needs it comes up.

I think we should have mandatory insurance. I think the NHS should really be a safety net for the most vulnerable, not the most entitled...

Stealing from the Labour quote book now?

But the poor old dear might need a hip-op because she did a lot of sport when young and wore it out. And the poor grandad with the heart problem might have spent his life on the sofa.

Maybe you should move to a country which doesn't have all these things, like UAE.

[Zoiderman]

Making expensive insurance necessary for anyone who did dangerous sports, and some ordinary ones like rugby or horse riding are among the most dangerous, could increase costs to the NHS by putting people off healthy exercise. Some of those old people needing hip replacements are equally to blame because they sat around on their arses too much. Once you start refusing treatment on grounds of blame where do you stop? According to this week's depressing health news I'm raising my risk of a heart attack by sitting here to type this. (I shall sue CUK if have one)

However, I do think there may a case for a two tier system as in Australia. The free one provides what's strictly necessary basic care; if you want quick response in non urgent cases or cosmetic procedures like removal of non malignant lumps etc you pay extra.

Ironically, or coincidentally, I was going to list Aus and it's medicare program as something I would agree with, for the very reasons you've mentioned.

As for not exercising, I used to play an awful lot of 'pub' sport as a youngster, and most of it was played by the most unhealthy older oiks imaginable. All of them would be injured regularly from not being fit in the first place. I now take part in contact sports, so believe I am responsible for my injuries. Riding a bike and getting hit by a car is an accident, which I believe should be covered, riding my mountain bike downhill, off road, and clatching a tree would be my own fault.

I seriously believe this is true. I keep myself fit, as I want to live longer, spend more time with my family, eek out what time I have. That's my choice, as it the oiks who sit in front of the TV with the only nod to healthy living being a walk to the pub every now and again. However, I believe I have a responsibility to pay for my own health, as I earn so much, and choose my lifestyle. I just think it's fairer.

[xoggoth]

Making expensive insurance necessary for anyone who did dangerous sports, and some ordinary ones like rugby or horse riding are among the most dangerous, could increase costs to the NHS by putting people off healthy exercise. Some of those old people needing hip replacements are equally to blame because they sat around on their arses too much. Once you start refusing treatment on grounds of blame where do you stop? According to this week's depressing health news I'm raising my risk of a heart attack by sitting here to type this. (I shall sue CUK if have one)

However, I do think there may a case for a two tier system as in Australia. The free one provides what's strictly necessary basic care; if you want quick response in non urgent cases or cosmetic procedures like removal of non malignant lumps etc you pay extra.

[Zoiderman]

So anyone whose injury is self-inflicted should be exempt then - playing sport, climbing, sailing, etc? The whole point of the welfare state is to provide basic care in a non-discriminatory way.

And I disagree with it. Why the **** should some poor old dear have to wait an extra 3 weeks for her hip surgery as theres a backlog in knee operations due to some sportmen having ACL rebuilds? It's just wrong. There is only so much surgery time in hospitals and chaffing it all up with sports injuries is wrong. You should, if you can afford it, go private or get bumped down the list every time someone who genuinely needs it comes up.

I think we should have mandatory insurance. I think the NHS should really be a safety net for the most vulnerable, not the most entitled...

[d000hg]

...

So anyone whose injury is self-inflicted should be exempt then - playing sport, climbing, sailing, etc? The whole point of the welfare state is to provide basic care in a non-discriminatory way.

[sasguru]

Fook me, I find myself supporting Ziodercock, Tis a sad day.

[Zoiderman]

Well it's just lucky a pig-ignorant vicious git like you isn't running things then.

Lucky in that I would reform it so it was more efficient for the needy? Yes, very vicious.

I use private A&E facilities. Costs £25 each visit, you are seen immediately and treatment afterwards is covered by insurance, if required, otherwise thats it. You pay for your drugs. I nearly lost an eye a few years back, went NHS and the resulting treatment was horrendous. I have been private ever since. I'd ensure everyone that could afford it, like we all can, did the same. I'd also ensure the NHS was used as a proper medical facility, in that it weas used by people with medical emergencies. People who had fights and came in cuffed by the police I'd make pay. People with sporting injuries, I'd make pay. People who had cancer would be treated immediately, for free, people with diseases, would be treated immediately, for free. Children would be free.

There is too much taken for granted in thsi country, a lot of it by people who could afford not to.

If that makes me pig ignorant, and vicious, well, I find that strange

[d000hg]

Well it's just lucky a pig-ignorant vicious git like you isn't running things then.

[Zoiderman]

Because they already paid for it privately, this is only to remove the dangerous item and leave as they found it. Reconstructive plastic surgery is after all offered on NHS for burn victims and breast cancer, etc - they don't just get them to the point they'll live and stop. Regardless how you injure yourself, the NHS is there to fix you up without judging you.

And it's here in which I find fault. Maybe they shouldn't. 5th highest employer in the world, a beast that is sprialling out of control, and yet we continue to feed it. It isn't reconstructive plastic surgery, these people have willingly disfigured themselves, in the name of their own looks and then gone all pissed as now it's failed, they want us to pay for it? No way.