Reply to: Would you have gone to university if you had to pay for it?

[SimonMac]

I didn't go to university at all and don't regret it

[NotAllThere]

The point is that there's not enough people doing these degrees, and they're the most expensive.

[SueEllen]

Maybe this time, numbers will decrease. This can only be a good thing. What the government should do, however, is offer grants for people wishing to study sensible subjects, like maths, physics, engineering, but require those courses to have stringent exam prerequisites.

There is no need.

Most UK educated students don't want to do the physical sciences and engineering anyway at degree level.

The ones that take the sciences tend to want to go into the biotech or medical industry. Though a lot more take Maths A level just because it's a good base for business type degree subjects.

This has lead to lots of universities and ex-polys closing their chemistry, physics and engineering departments because too few UK students wanted to do them and they can't get enough foreign students on the courses to make them viable due to the amount of competition.

For the few UK students who do these courses there are bursaries and possibility of sponsorship but it's better to get a student on to a course first before showing them those options are available to them. Even if you get good A levels it's not a guarantee you will work at the subject.

Likewise with the EMA argument at A levels. Before EMA was dreamt up, lots of people were offered grants to do their A levels or free travel passes by their local authority but were only given this information by their school or college once they had started the course and shown dedication.

[NotAllThere]

In the late 80s when loans were first thought about (finally introduced in 1990), the revolting students and assorted lefties and liberals claimed it would reduce the number of students going to university. It didn't happen. In my first and second year at university, the intake was 1000 new students each year. In my third year (beginning of loans) it was 3000.

Same argument was brought around against tuition fees. Student numbers increased.

Maybe this time, numbers will decrease. This can only be a good thing. What the government should do, however, is offer grants for people wishing to study sensible subjects, like maths, physics, engineering, but require those courses to have stringent exam prerequisites.

I'm entirely disinterested though. I pay ~£1000 a year for my son's university tuition at a Swiss university. Maybe learning a second language and applying for universities in continental Europe - where fees are low/non-existant - should be encouraged. Funny thing - there's free university for people resident in Scotland, and for non-British people resident in Europe, but if you're British and not resident in Scotland (even if you live in France and grew up in Scotland), you have to pay.

I'm doing a second degree through the university of London distance learning. Costs me less than a grand a year.

[wim121]

I would have done an Open University degree and got a job. In fact that's what I recommend anyone to do rather than end up with 30 grand worth of debts.

OU fees are going up too. An OU degree will cost you £15K if you start from September.

That's what Im doing and overall, I will probably have spent a few hundred, maybe just over a grand over all the years.

Yes fees are going up, but most people are always entitled to grants of some kind. If you plan your modules, you can minimise the cost a lot.

As you both said, it is the best way because you can continue working at the same time.

[wim121]

Jealous?

Not at all.

Well, maybe I would have liked a massive party, but even with coke, booze and strippers, sounds like a good time, but that can be done on far less than 10k.

and how to shorten the phrase 'I am' with the correct use of an apostrophe, something which Wim121 obviously didn't learn. All of this was at the expense of the Great British taxpayer.

I did, so would you care to stop trolling?

As previously discussed many a times, in informal conversation, writing with the odd omission is deemed acceptable by many, just so long as it can be comprehended. I have the ability, but not the desire on here.

The reason why I miss out the apostrophe is because "Im" is quite clear and when posting on my mobile, I have to go off the alphabet, on to the numerical keypad and then scroll through two screen areas to add an apostrophe, which slows down typing on a touch screen considerably. Why should I be more inefficient especially when all Im doing is making a pissy post on CUK?

Obviously when Im doing anything formal like my Uni work, it is all typed perfectly on a computer and not a touch screen phone as that would take days.

[AtW]

I would.

HTH

Mich

[Mich the Tester]

Well what you say about the Classics lads I went to school with? They certainly did do Maths O level, (though I honestly can't remember whether any of them failed). However none of them did maths beyond O level, and good proportion of them ended up at Oxbridge, some with scholarships or exhibitions. The economics folks didn't do A level maths either, but got scorching good A levels in my year (an exceptional teacher methinks) and also went to Oxbridge.

Ummm, I said you should do maths to O level, as is still the case in UK I think; they abolished that requirement in Holland and it led to lots of people who are as thick as tulip getting degrees. The current government are bringing that requirement back, and it's probably the only one of their policies that I think actually holds water.

[Sysman]

Agree that the local language is essential, but I think both maths and local language are essential. Perhaps maths does just teach you to pass an exam, which is a discipline in itself, but it at least should help to teach logical thinking and critical analysis, if it's taught well.

Well what you say about the Classics lads I went to school with? They certainly did do Maths O level, (though I honestly can't remember whether any of them failed). However none of them did maths beyond O level, and good proportion of them ended up at Oxbridge, some with scholarships or exhibitions. The economics folks didn't do A level maths either, but got scorching good A levels in my year (an exceptional teacher methinks) and also went to Oxbridge.

[MrRobin]

I had a brilliant time and delayed starting work

It's great that young people usually have a fantastic time at uni but this has become the MAIN reason or even the ONLY reason some people go to university nowadays...

[aussielong]

Yep, but at least you can work at the same time. Their fees are going up, but are internationally very competitive; the OU is actually one of Britain's export success stories and has a chance of doing even better now as some European countries like NL are making part time higher education prohibitively expensive.

Reminds me of things on TV late at night in the late 80's when I was getting educated:

OU
Get Stuffed
Prisoner Cell Block H
James Whale Radio Show
Australian Rules Football
Tour Of Duty
Indian subtitled films with very dodgy computer graphics

[lukemg]

I had a brilliant time and delayed starting work so would like to think I would still go but realistically I feel it probably only works for the right course at the right place. Not the dodgy poly course I bounced onto.
When people with degrees were still relatively rare, you can easily see that there were many advantages that would provide the extra income always trotted out. These days, they are 10 a penny and worth a lot less (vocational, russell etc excepted).
You can see this happening as people with a joe basic degree bounce out of uni and into competition with school/a-level leavers/people with a few years work under belt and dont seem to have any advantage when trying to get that call-centre job.....
Then they all want to be teachers.....

[ctdctd]

I had an offer of an apprenticeship (remember those?) at Marconi (remember them?) in Chelmsford (that's still there )

I went to Hatfield Poly 'cause I got a grant and the careers master at school said it was a good idea.

If the Poly wanted thousands for me to attend, I would have saved Marconi for the nation instead!

[Freamon]

The statistic that is frequently trotted out says that a degree will, on average, increase the lifetime earnings of the graduate in question by around £1m in total. So on that basis it's obviously worth it. I'm not sure how true that statistic is though, particularly with the advent of nonsense degree courses in the past few years, such as Business Information Management, and fourth tier colleges such as Heriot-Watt University.

[d000hg]

I disagree.

Lots of Arts and Social Science students become teachers. And primary teachers teach every subject.

What's that got to do anything? The ones who become teachers can be the ones who DO have basic skills in core subjects. Or they can do a conversion course (this is very common in the UK, no idea about other nations) to brush up on missing/rusty skills.