Reply to: Should smacking laws be eased after riots?

[wim121]

The thing is we are talking about getting the youth of today to respect boundaries etc.

yet what example is being set by the wealth and supposed business leaders of our country.

It seems to be acceptable to lie, cheat and be generally dishonest if it makes money.

And therefore why would our kids learn anything different.

We spend much of our time teaching our children to be honest upstanding citizens - except as soon as they get to a certain age lies, deceipt and back stabbing becomes the way to achieve your goals.

We are simply reaping what we sow.

Indeed. I often got annoyed when I was younger, when I found that my mother lied (and still does) when she didnt know the answer to a question. The first lie parents tell is the xmas lie. Then every time they dont have an answer to an awkward or intellectual/knowledgable question, they'll lie over and over again. How does that teach a child as they grow up to tell the truth?

[wim121]

Young people's rights

See Punishment section.

Example in itself that not enough is known on the issue, everyone should be educated on what is allowed. Parents and authorities.

That's why I stated what was allowed. Allowed seems to be too much of a blanket statement. It may be legally correct, but that is different from morally permissible. Smacking never harmed me and social services were never called when I was smacked in public, however things are very different nowadays and I wouldn't personally like to take the risk in exercising my rights when they cannot be guaranteed to protect me.

IMO the root cause is that social services are answerable to no-one. And they cannot be sued. They have absolute power.

Indeed. If they want to take your kid, they will, even if you have been legally doing everything correct. Cases like Baby P don't make it easier. In a short window, they have to decide between a parent doing something do-gooders don't find acceptable and covert abuse. Sadly many good parents have their kids ripped away from them and spend years protesting. But as you said, SS are answerable to no-one and once your kids are taken, it can be very hard to get them back.

[original PM]

The thing is we are talking about getting the youth of today to respect boundaries etc.

yet what example is being set by the wealth and supposed business leaders of our country.

It seems to be acceptable to lie, cheat and be generally dishonest if it makes money.

And therefore why would our kids learn anything different.

We spend much of our time teaching our children to be honest upstanding citizens - except as soon as they get to a certain age lies, deceipt and back stabbing becomes the way to achieve your goals.

We are simply reaping what we sow.

[bobspud]

Do you think it was the hidings that shaped you or the fact that boundaries were imposed?
The current problems are down to a lack of boundaries for these kids behaviour. Enforcement doesn't have to be physical, just carried through properly.

It was boundaries backed up with the fact that very soon I knew that if I was dumb enough to keep pushing those boundaries, I would have trouble sitting down after my backside was smacked. So consequently I chose to be well mannered and behaved, thus hardly ever needing to be told what was right or wrong.

I have trouble equating those boundaries with one of the little monsters in my sons class having playstaton time removed for a week for cutting another child's head open with a stone....
What did the child learn?
He did what he wanted to do...
It didn't hurt because he does not care what anyone in the headmasters office thinks...
and now just has to do something else except play games for one week till it's business as usual..."

Not so long after this he was expelled for trying to sell drugs (he was 10 FFS)

Compared with my last ever smack:
The kid was taunting me. I got hold of the little brat, and he went home with a bleeding nose and bloody lip. Dad got involved and my backside hurt for as long as his lip.

The next day without any teacher interventions, he wandered up and apologised to me in school for pushing my buttons, I said sorry for getting fisty. Both of us learned about respecting each others boundaries... We couldn't go on in the same taunting and punishment beating cycle because there was a pain threshold involved for both of us... the whole thing was done and dusted in 2 days...

[mudskipper]

Peter didn't get much then?

:

[Mich the Tester]

As for the girls, they are forward, immodest
and unladylike in speech, behavior and dress."

Peter the Hermit, 1274 AD

Peter didn't get much then?

[mudskipper]

"The world is passing through troublous times. The young people of
today think of nothing but themselves. They have no reverence for
parents or old age. They are impatient of all restraint. They talk as
if they knew everything, and what passes for wisdom with us is
foolishness with them. As for the girls, they are forward, immodest
and unladylike in speech, behavior and dress."

Peter the Hermit, 1274 AD

""What is happening to our young
people? They disrespect their elders, they disobey their parents. They
ignore the law. They riot in the streets inflamed with wild notions.
Their morals are decaying. What is to become of them?"

Plato, quoting Socrates (although some dispute about source/wording). 423 BC

[Spacecadet]

Riot yes. Go on extreem shopping trips? Not so much...

There was a women on radio 4 last year talking about the african migrants and how the times have changed. I don't think it was just the Africans that knew how to guide the kids. Back in the 70's I knew that if I was up to no good, anyone of a dozen or so elders in my neighbourhood would deal with it, and then it would get back to my dad. (then there would be real trouble!) it involved me getting a bloody good hiding on maybe 3 occasions in 18 years. But the result was that I was respectful, helpful and able to be let loose on a large area of East London without the risk of dishonouring my family or causing harm to others.

Do you think it was the hidings that shaped you or the fact that boundaries were imposed?
The current problems are down to a lack of boundaries for these kids behaviour. Enforcement doesn't have to be physical, just carried through properly.

[mudskipper]

Compare that with the yoof of my kids generation.

BBC ON THIS DAY | 18 | 1964: Mods and Rockers jailed after seaside riots

[bobspud]

Didn't people riot in the good old smacking days too?

Riot yes. Go on extreem shopping trips? Not so much...

There was a women on radio 4 last year talking about the african migrants and how the times have changed. I don't think it was just the Africans that knew how to guide the kids. Back in the 70's I knew that if I was up to no good, anyone of a dozen or so elders in my neighbourhood would deal with it, and then it would get back to my dad. (then there would be real trouble!) it involved me getting a bloody good hiding on maybe 3 occasions in 18 years. But the result was that I was respectful, helpful and able to be let loose on a large area of East London without the risk of dishonouring my family or causing harm to others.

Compare that with the yoof of my kids generation. The only thing they are worried about is the occasional stranger trying to bugger them senseless. But the idea that a stranger would stop them smashing windows or other bits of vandalism is a totally alien concept.

[d000hg]

But I detest social workers. It should be possible to sue anyone who does not do their job properly.

I prefer not to sue anyone personally - it's a sure sign of a broken system/society where the way to complain about a bad worker is to try and sue them. The right way is to have a way to make complaints that are actually upheld (I'm sure that's no more likely!)

But either way, are they really impossible to sue? You can sue your doctor or your council, people do it all the time and then people on CUK post about how a council is wasting £100k paying someone who tripped over an uneven pavement.

So in other words the law says you can give a white kid a gentle tap and you can slap a black kid as hard as you like.

It doesn't sound that unlikely, does it.

[Churchill]

Just saw a trailer for a documentary about social workers to be shown on BBC1. Looks interesting - they're all w4nkers.

ftfy

[Mich the Tester]

It is possible to tell . My mistress is half-caste and loves a good spanking. The skin difference is noticeable.

Possibly, but perhaps not with the darker kids.

However, I don't have a problem with parents dealing out the odd slap across the thighs or a twist of the ear. Not in favour of canes though; that introduces a whole new dimension as essentially it's a weapon.

[BrilloPad]

So in other words the law says you can give a white kid a gentle tap and you can slap a black kid as hard as you like.

It is possible to tell . My mistress is half-caste and loves a good spanking. The skin difference is noticeable.

[Mich the Tester]

Current legislation, enforced under The Children Act of 2004, says parents are allowed to smack their offspring without causing the ''reddening of the skin''.

So in other words the law says you can give a white kid a gentle tap and you can slap a black kid as hard as you like.