Reply to: Question for socialists

[MarillionFan]

Lets not beat about the bush. New Labour, Blair and Brown have wrecked this country
the turds

and thats not subjective, because some bloke down the pub said the same

WHS +1

It is truly incredible how we went from the sick man of Europe pre-Thatcher to the Lance Armstrong of Europe and then got sold down the river by New Labour and it's ridiculous socialist agenda. Frankly I would like to punch anyone in the face who thinks that 'Blair or Brown' did a good job.

[d000hg]

I finished O-levels in the seventies, and I remember a pass with an E grade was thought of as being OK, because in those days many more kids failed exams.

Nowadays a D or an E grade is considered a failure.

At the end of the two-year GCSE course, candidates receive a grade for each subject that they have sat. The pass grades, from highest to lowest, are: A* (pronounced 'A-star'), A, B, C, D, E, F and G.
GCSEs are part of the National Qualifications Framework. A GCSE at grades D–G is a Level 1 qualification, while a GCSE at grades A*–C is a Level 2 qualification. As one would expect, GCSEs at A*-C (Level 2) are much more desirable and insisted on by many employers and educational institutions.
Those who fail a course are given a U (unclassified) and the subject is not included on their certificates.
Students can also receive an X grade which signifies that they have only completed part of the course or key elements such as coursework are missing and so an appropriate grade cannot be given. A Q (query) grade means that the clarification is needed by the exam board, whom the school should contact. Both X and Q are normally temporary grades and replaced with a regular grade (A*-G or U) when the situation has been resolved.

Nothing is ever simple. I'd quite like to have an X or Q grade in something.

[EternalOptimist]

I finished O-levels in the seventies, and I remember a pass with an E grade was thought of as being OK, because in those days many more kids failed exams.

Nowadays a D or an E grade is considered a failure.

Lets not beat about the bush. New Labour, Blair and Brown have wrecked this country
the turds

and thats not subjective, because some bloke down the pub said the same

[Bagpuss]

So would you say then Bagpuss that the standard of education and the behaviour of children has improved in the last 30 years?

As Mich implies you could take any period where the elders of society assume things are getting worse and it is the fault of the young and the government. I can see why you are picking the last 30 years, it's a typical subjective trap, it's your lifetime, and as you grow into being your Mum and Dad you have to despise what you once admired and vice versa.

Hello Baggers old bean! Will we be seeing more of you?

Hi Mich, prefer to watch from the sidelines these days, but sometimes it's hard to resist.

[Doggy Styles]

I don't know if it was done everywhere, but my father (or maybe his father) had this... except they scaled the results so the top person got 100 and the bottom person got 0.

However... they DO set the marks for A,B,etc based on a target rate. Or they did just a few years ago for the exams I sat.

Unlike at uni where 70% was a first, in every subject, regardless.

I finished O-levels in the seventies, and I remember a pass with an E grade was thought of as being OK, because in those days many more kids failed exams.

Nowadays a D or an E grade is considered a failure.

[d000hg]

WHS

Then it wouldn't matter whether exams were harder or easier than last year. Didn't they used to do this back in the sixties/seventies?

I don't know if it was done everywhere, but my father (or maybe his father) had this... except they scaled the results so the top person got 100 and the bottom person got 0.

However... they DO set the marks for A,B,etc based on a target rate. Or they did just a few years ago for the exams I sat.

Unlike at uni where 70% was a first, in every subject, regardless.

[xoggoth]

and the way to do that is to award grades by percentiles

Quite. The purpose of exams is so that unis and employers can make a judgement so they have to be hard enough to properly distinguish between abilities. The reasons for high grades is academic.

[Doggy Styles]

The thing I really resent is that it used to be the top 10% got an 'A'. Now they have decided that standards have improved so much that 35% get an 'A'. The aim should always be to determine who is best. We live in a competitive world.

WHS

Then it wouldn't matter whether exams were harder or easier than last year. Didn't they used to do this back in the sixties/seventies?

[fullyautomatix]

The thing I really resent is that it used to be the top 10% got an 'A'. Now they have decided that standards have improved so much that 35% get an 'A'. The aim should always be to determine who is best. We live in a competitive world.

Its called Equality. Students should not be discriminated against because of their intellect. All students put in the same effort in attending classes and homework etc so they should all be awarded the same grade and they should all be allowed to apply for any degree in any college and be able to get a seat. This is the dream of Labour in turning this country into a socialist republic.

[d000hg]

I'm not. Compare an A-level Maths paper from the 80s with one now.
You'll see that the questions have been split into small bite sizes and lead you by the nose to the right answer.

When I sat my A-levels they showed us such papers and the kind of questions were similar... they seemed harder on first glance but then we weren't taught towards those style of questions so they would do.

[Mich the Tester]

The thing I really resent is that it used to be the top 10% got an 'A'. Now they have decided that standards have improved so much that 35% get an 'A'. The aim should always be to determine who is best. We live in a competitive world.

whs

Whatever method you apply, exams one year will be easier or harder than the other; we need to find out who's (relatively) best, who's good, who's OK and who's crap, and the way to do that is to award grades by percentiles.

[BrilloPad]

I'm not. Compare an A-level Maths paper from the 80s with one now.
You'll see that the questions have been split into small bite sizes and lead you by the nose to the right answer.

The thing I really resent is that it used to be the top 10% got an 'A'. Now they have decided that standards have improved so much that 35% get an 'A'. The aim should always be to determine who is best. We live in a competitive world.

[sasguru]

I'm not Bagpuss but I'd suggest that the meedjah and the populists have been telling people since the dawn of time that education standards, moral standards and all sorts of other standards are slipping, the 'yoof of today' are useless and feckless and SOMETHING MUST BE DONE!!!

I'm skeptical.

I'm not. Compare an A-level Maths paper from the 80s with one now.
You'll see that the questions have been split into small bite sizes and lead you by the nose to the right answer.

[Mich the Tester]

So would you say then Bagpuss that the standard of education and the behaviour of children has improved in the last 30 years?

I'm not Bagpuss but I'd suggest that the meedjah and the populists have been telling people since the dawn of time that education standards, moral standards and all sorts of other standards are slipping, the 'yoof of today' are useless and feckless and SOMETHING MUST BE DONE!!!

I'm skeptical.

[Mich the Tester]

This thread is hilarious, full of cliches and anecdotal 'evidences' of why the state can't educate and why all us state educated oiks iz all fick innit. Life is not binary, it's not either/or, that's the world of computer programming, coincidence that some start to think that lazy way?
One wonders where those superb individuals (Lisa and the like wax lyrical about) go when they have finished their privileged educations. Ahh, yes that's right into the state sector universities, those same seats of learning regarded as some of the best in the world. But hang on.. does not compute system overload, system overload. Apparently you can take a horse to (that dirty infected state) water and you can make it drink!

Public school maybe useful if your kids have average or below average intellect, the smaller class sizes will help, they will network with 'the right' people. Those who are above the norm will always have the wit to do well. Unless you can afford the cream of privates schools (and you can't) save your money, it's not going to help.

Hello Baggers old bean! Will we be seeing more of you?