Reply to: That awkward rate moment when..........

[The Spartan]

I'm hoping to get Security Clearance next year hopefully that will lead to contracts with higher rates

[SneakySimon]

What industry do you work in?

Banking - investment generally.

[xoggoth]

Think I recall an occasion like that, expect that, being in aircraft controls, ie something actually useful, the top person's rate was about you useless money shovers' lowest rate. The only time I got anything approaching £500 was for a direct two week contract.

[GeorgeB]

.......someone realises they are on substantially less than everyone.

During the quiet Xmas time, the contractors around us got chatting about our rates. Now in our team, we all work generally the same role, similar experience and apart from one person, generally work 8.30 till 5.30 (project depending). So we go around the table, and rates come out £500, £475, £525 etc. Then we get to the person who works long hours most days. Looking somewhat crestfallen, they said they were only on £280 PD - apaprently it is there 2nd contract role after being permie for 25 years and thought £280 was good!

Be an interesting conversation with there manager in January!!

What industry do you work in?

[NotAllThere]

Why on earth would you discuss your rate with other contractors?

It seems pretty obvious to me.

Rates and margin are commercially sensitive information. Agents in particular like to keep such information secret, if they can, because they can exploit it to their own ends.

If you reveal your rate to another contractor, you risk them being able to undercut you. You also may be in breach of contractual conditions. However, if you've established a level of trust, mutual rate disclosure could benefit the lower paid of you to the detriment of the agent. You just have to decide whether the risks of disclosure to a fellow contractor outweigh the benefit.

Working out the mean rate as described above is an excellent way of minimising the risk of breach of contract.

[SimonMac]

On BBC Radio 4's "More or Less" they explained a way of working out the average of a set of rates without anyone revealing their individual rate. (In that particular programme they're dealing with a set of bankers who want to work out the average of the bankers' bonuses.)

It goes like so:

* You need more than two people in the set;
* I start the thing off by thinking of a random number that I keep secret. This number can be anything you like including negative but you must remember it for a few minutes;
* I then take the random number and add my rate to it then whisper it to the next person in the circle;
* They then take this meaningless number then add their rate to it and whisper this new number to the next person in the circle;
* This keeps on going until it comes back round to the person who thought of the random number. This person then minuses the secret random number they thought of and this gives the sum of all your rates.
* Divide this number by the number of people in the circle and you have the arithmetic mean of all your rates and no-one has revealed their individual rate.

The only thing you've got to watch out for is if anyone hears a whisper they shouldn't and if you catch someone doing the same thing again with contractors common to the group you did it in before: you could use such information in simultaneous equations and start working out individual rates.

That would work!

[Cenobite]

A way to work out the arithmetic mean of a set of rates without revealing

On BBC Radio 4's "More or Less" they explained a way of working out the average of a set of rates without anyone revealing their individual rate. (In that particular programme they're dealing with a set of bankers who want to work out the average of the bankers' bonuses.)

It goes like so:

* You need more than two people in the set;
* I start the thing off by thinking of a random number that I keep secret. This number can be anything you like including negative but you must remember it for a few minutes;
* I then take the random number and add my rate to it then whisper it to the next person in the circle;
* They then take this meaningless number then add their rate to it and whisper this new number to the next person in the circle;
* This keeps on going until it comes back round to the person who thought of the random number. This person then minuses the secret random number they thought of and this gives the sum of all your rates.
* Divide this number by the number of people in the circle and you have the arithmetic mean of all your rates and no-one has revealed their individual rate.

The only thing you've got to watch out for is if anyone hears a whisper they shouldn't and if you catch someone doing the same thing again with contractors common to the group you did it in before: you could use such information in simultaneous equations and start working out individual rates.

[ThomasSoerensen]

I just have to say Hahahaha.

Seriously though, he can't be a good business can he. Just goes to show that you need at least a modicum of business nous as well as technical expertise to be a successful contractor.

All of my contracts, including my first one, have been at a decent enough rate - otherwise I wouldn't have seen the point of contracting.

is there a link somewhere to a "Guide to survive on 500 £ per day"

[SimonMac]

Does anyone know where they get their data? Do they ask people to post their rates, ask agents/clients what they are paying?

My guess it goes on "advertised" rates of vacancies, real or fake.

[MarillionFan]

Even my wife would only have a rough idea of my rate, I have never discussed it with any other contractors, especially in the same place I work.

Just too much room for bad feeling if the rates differ by much.

I'm pretty sure my contract specificies that I don't discuss it anyway.

Mine wouldn't have a clue. But then again to her £50000 has the same value as £50.

[Scrag Meister]

Even my wife would only have a rough idea of my rate, I have never discussed it with any other contractors, especially in the same place I work.

Just too much room for bad feeling if the rates differ by much.

I'm pretty sure my contract specificies that I don't discuss it anyway.

[Freamon]

Does anyone know where they get their data? Do they ask people to post their rates, ask agents/clients what they are paying?

I always assumed they just scraped various job sites, which is why I say it's not accurate.

[Spacecadet]

Does anyone know where they get their data? Do they ask people to post their rates, ask agents/clients what they are paying?

I think most of them rely on the job boards and scrape rates from there.
This will (IMO) give an artificially high average rate for a skill as agents tend to use the euphamism "Market Rate" for "As cheap as you're willing to go"

[Scrag Meister]

Does anyone know where they get their data? Do they ask people to post their rates, ask agents/clients what they are paying?

I think it may be rates advertised.

[MarillionFan]

Does anyone know where they get their data? Do they ask people to post their rates, ask agents/clients what they are paying?

Probably the same as this. Jobstats - IT Jobs Salary Rates and Market Information

Just analyse job adverts.