Reply to: £12bn NHS computer system is scrapped...

[lilelvis2000]

The problem as I see it from various viewpoints over the last 8 years lies in the contracts, which are so tied down that clinical and other operatoinal priorities are ignored. Some of these are dynamic and require a more dynamic contractual arrangement, but some of them are blindingly obvious. The silver bullet, IMHO, for hospitals would be electronic prescribing of medication with an electronic drug administration record. The potential benefits in terms of patient safety and other clinical outcomes would be significant, and it would engage clinical staff. It would also pave the way for a patient centred drug record taking into account GP prescription records, pharmacy dispensing records, Mental Health and Community medication records.

There were lots of other relatively simple 'early wins' such as electronic discharge summaries, so that GPs and community teams actually know when a patient has come out of the hospital.

Instead, there has been this insane collection of complex and therefore undeliverable nonsense that deosn't even meet the right priorities.

You do sound like someone on the inside.

This could open up opportunities for a guy like me, who has a EMR solution which is being test deployed in South Africa. Well its worth a shot, but given the addiction to the big five consultancies...it may not happen.

[SueEllen]

Most of them were too busy getting new contracts over the first 5 years of the labour goverment to care about anything. Labour (and the country) got totally fecked over by making an arse up of the negotiations. The BMA were hiring out football grounds for the meetings and normally mild mannered doctors in tweed jackets were standing up on seats shouting how they were going to go on strike. They are the most militant workforce in the country just now.

I think the teachers are more militant as the doctors are happy with their pay even if they don't like the systems they are using.

[minestrone]

The solution would have been to ask the doctors what they wanted. I gather they resisted this software monolith and Hewitt & co. gravy train from the onset and ended up writing their own crappy Excel based solutions, which then also had to be corrected and maintained by the IT departments. Although it's probably also true that they are more touchy feely than technically inclined.

Most of them were too busy getting new contracts over the first 5 years of the labour goverment to care about anything. Labour (and the country) got totally fecked over by making an arse up of the negotiations. The BMA were hiring out football grounds for the meetings and normally mild mannered doctors in tweed jackets were standing up on seats shouting how they were going to go on strike. They are the most militant workforce in the country just now.

[psychocandy]

Wonder if this is a worse screw up than yesterdays Firecon ?

[lukemg]

Still sounds like a big chunk of cash no matter how you look at it. Having said that, the money has at least gone to people in the UK, been recycled into the economy and taxes and there has been some stuff to show for it.
Sounds like the next phase is screaming for a cloud solution to me.

[DaveB]

Dubious - it might work according to the agreed specification with the vendors - which is largely written by the vendors who bamboozle the incompetant NHS staff into agreeing that the reams of documentation "being delivered" actually amounts to something.

But does it mean that doctors, nurses and patients can actually do anything useful with it - or was it worth the staggeringly humungeous cost.

Nope. They actually work.

NHSMail. Secure encrypted email service available to every NHS employee to allow confidential exchange of paitient information between hospitals, gps and other health services.

N3. A private, national WAN with over 40,000 endpoints providing private managed comms between connected organisations.

PACS. Digital storage and display of X-Rays, Cat Scans and other medical imaging available online via N3 and capturing millions of images a week.

EPS. Connecting thousands of Pharmacies to GP's and hospitals and allowing prescriptions to be sent directly to the Pharmacy for collection by the patient.

SCR. Summary health records of millions of individuals allowing access to basic medical details anywhere in the NHS for use in emergancy situations.

Choose and Book. Book hospital appontments from the GP surgery while the patient is there rather than waiting for letters and appointments to be sent back and forth.

All these are supported by one of the largest IAM systems in the world with over a million users getting controlled access to NHS systems.

These are live, in use in the NHS now, and they work.

As I said, I'm not claiming the whole NPfIT project has been a resounding success, but there have a been a lot of good things come out of it and more continue to be developed.

[lilelvis2000]

Didn't Hewitt get a board seat from BT - presumably as a thank you from BT for granting them a big hunk of the NHS project.

[TimberWolf]

The solution would have been to ask the doctors what they wanted. I gather they resisted this software monolith and Hewitt & co. gravy train from the onset and ended up writing their own crappy Excel based solutions, which then also had to be corrected and maintained by the IT departments. Although it's probably also true that they are more touchy feely than technically inclined.

[Old Greg]

The problem as I see it from various viewpoints over the last 8 years lies in the contracts, which are so tied down that clinical and other operatoinal priorities are ignored. Some of these are dynamic and require a more dynamic contractual arrangement, but some of them are blindingly obvious. The silver bullet, IMHO, for hospitals would be electronic prescribing of medication with an electronic drug administration record. The potential benefits in terms of patient safety and other clinical outcomes would be significant, and it would engage clinical staff. It would also pave the way for a patient centred drug record taking into account GP prescription records, pharmacy dispensing records, Mental Health and Community medication records.

There were lots of other relatively simple 'early wins' such as electronic discharge summaries, so that GPs and community teams actually know when a patient has come out of the hospital.

Instead, there has been this insane collection of complex and therefore undeliverable nonsense that deosn't even meet the right priorities.

[centurian]

Just had a read of the actual article. Every project they have quoted has actually been delivered and works.

Dubious - it might work according to the agreed specification with the vendors - which is largely written by the vendors who bamboozle the incompetant NHS staff into agreeing that the reams of documentation "being delivered" actually amounts to something.

But does it mean that doctors, nurses and patients can actually do anything useful with it - or was it worth the staggeringly humungeous cost.

[d000hg]

Makes that £500m fire service thing look like a minor snafu.

£12bn, and still my pregnant friends have to carry their notes around because the midwife and hospital and GP can't access their records on a central system...

[Freamon]

Yeah it's a nonsense article. The reporting lines are changing but the money has already been spent and at least some of the outputs delivered.

[MarillionFan]

Punching Mordac in the kisser isn't exactly politics

Stole my test network the bastard

[stek]

I worked on SDS, a massive ldap solution, worked fine!!

[AtW]

Politics did for me in my only 2nd perm job at the time and the company in question paid me £10k to bugger off and open up my shop.

Punching Mordac in the kisser isn't exactly politics