Reply to: Family served with eviction notice from Wandsworth Council

[lukemg]

Woman on radio last week saying that it was the lifetime tenancies that were a major problem and that as a punishment people can be put on 6-monthers. This is then reviewed in terms of behaviour/criminal activity and circumstances of occupants and renewed or cancelled as necessary. Just the threat of this is enough to keep many in line. But it's not faaaaaaiiiiirrrrr, fine, feel free to make alternative arrangements for yourselves.

[centurian]

I propose a technological solution. We could use high tech GPS enabled tracking devices linked to massive doses of sedatives to impose house arrest on anyone convicted of a minor offence. Should they stray more than 100m from their house they will be rendered unconscious in the middle of the street, so that any passer by can urinate on them or shave their eyebrows.

The collars from "The Running Man" seemed to be quite effective in keeping people in a defined area - until an idiot user did the equivalent of leaving the admin password on a post-it note.

[doodab]

I don't disagree. But to do a complete about-face on this policy and start giving people 6 months for stealing some bottled water, first offence, in light of the laxity shown towards MPs expense-fraud etc, just widens the credibility gap that already exists in the eyes of many people.

yes, absolutely, but you have to start somewhere.

[Freamon]

People have been getting away with it cos it's "just a bottle of wine", "just some unpaid car tax", "just a common assault", "just shoplifiting", "just breaking and entering" or "just some victimless white collar fraud" or "just some anti-social behaviour" for far too long. If the courts had spent the last 20 years locking people up for relatively minor first offences you wouldn't have a nation of people who believe they can do whatever the **** they choose without facing any consequences.

I don't disagree. But to do a complete about-face on this policy and start giving people 6 months for stealing some bottled water, first offence, in light of the laxity shown towards MPs expense-fraud etc, just widens the credibility gap that already exists in the eyes of many people.

[AtW]

Should they stray more than 100m from their house they will be rendered unconscious in the middle of the street, so that any passer by can urinate on them or shave their eyebrows.

[doodab]

The trouble is that when you send someone to jail for 6 months for stealing £3.50 of bottled water, whereas Jim Devine only served 4 months for £8,385 fraudulent MP's expenses, it just makes the justice system and the government seem even less credible to a group of people who have already lost faith in it. (Not to mention other MPs who received no punishment, bankers who haven't been investigated for the fraud that caused the GFC, dodgy police and media types implicated in phone hacking, etc).

People have been getting away with it cos it's "just a bottle of wine", "just some unpaid car tax", "just a common assault", "just shoplifiting", "just breaking and entering" or "just some victimless white collar fraud" or "just some anti-social behaviour" for far too long. If the courts had spent the last 20 years locking people up for relatively minor first offences you wouldn't have a nation of people who believe they can do whatever the **** they choose without facing any consequences.

The next problem will be maintaining a comparable level of sentencing. Britain's jails are already overflowing and from what I gather we don't have the budget or political will to build more so we have a choice between letting existing prisoners out early to make space or going easy on "low level" crime.

I propose a technological solution. We could use high tech GPS enabled tracking devices linked to massive doses of sedatives to impose house arrest on anyone convicted of a minor offence. Should they stray more than 100m from their house they will be rendered unconscious in the middle of the street, so that any passer by can urinate on them or shave their eyebrows.

[minestrone]

Comments like that really make me wonder who's worse... the chavs or the middle-class people who look down on them.

I have pretty much always had a job since I was 12, I maximised the educational chances I got, put a decent effort into my professional life, never been in bother with the police and have done that without the need for an array of tax payer funded community groups filled from top to toe with right on excuse filled enablers screaming on about my human rights any time anyone asks me to actually do something or disagrees with me.

I made my choices and they have made theirs so they can take the punishment as much as I have taken the rewards.

[centurian]

I think the justification (rightly or wrongly) is that looting creates fear and panic among the public, so the sentance reflects not the monetary value of what was stolen, but part of it's overall contribution to the fear caused to innocent members of the public.

[Freamon]

I am impressed with the more
heavier sentences the courts have been handing out by sending rioters of all types (whether their first ever crime or multiple) straight to jail - do not pass go - do not collect £200.

The trouble is that when you send someone to jail for 6 months for stealing £3.50 of bottled water, whereas Jim Devine only served 4 months for £8,385 fraudulent MP's expenses, it just makes the justice system and the government seem even less credible to a group of people who have already lost faith in it. (Not to mention other MPs who received no punishment, bankers who haven't been investigated for the fraud that caused the GFC, dodgy police and media types implicated in phone hacking, etc).

[MrMark]

I have never understood where communities who have large number of unemployed do
not have community work schemes aligned with the local councils where basic painting/decorating/cleaning skills etc are not taught and
employed. Then those out of work would decorate the flats of others on social housing , would
clean the streets, tidy up, mow the parks, prune the trees etc in exchange for their
benefit plus maybe a community
top up. They would maybe only need to do two days per week each.

The argument against has always been that someone employed is put out of work and the unions would strike, but as most councils outsource their work to the private sector this doesn't hold water. Reduce council outgoings by making those you pay to sit at home work in the community for two days, they become insentivised and get a work ethic and start to respect their community. Winners all round shirley?

I'm not glad I took MF off my ignore list.
So in areas of high unemployment, you make more unemployed by putting the professional painters/handymen out of work. So that you can try and get effective work done by the chavs two days a week?
It's like those people who say we should bring back conscription. It would be a terrible blow to the army. One reason we have such good armed forces is because they are a professional force, manned by people who choose to do that job.
I've a better idea. Give tenants without work in London a bribe of 4 or 5k to exchange their council flat for a place in Norfolk or Lincs (or anywhere where there is a shortage of agricultural workers). This bribe would soon be recovered from the housing benefit currently being forked out. Of course they may still end up rioting in the sticks, but since journalists don't go there, we won't need to watch it!

[MrMark]

Not sure about the eviction idea, seems heavy handed and needs to be used for the worst cases.

I am impressed with the more
heavier sentences the courts have been handing out by sending rioters of all types (whether their first ever crime or multiple) straight to jail - do not pass go - do not collect £200.

Some of the reactions of people sent to jail have been along the lines of 'b b b but it was only a bottle of wine' I think the knowledge that if your caught for
rioting/looting you're going away for
six months will act as a deterrent to
many.

I'm glad I took MF off my ignore list. This was a good post and I agree with the opinions expressed.

[d000hg]

I doubt anyone will take them on privately now he has had his mush pictured on the front page of the Mail. Homeless hostels for this family then, can't say I am sad really.

Comments like that really make me wonder who's worse... the chavs or the middle-class people who look down on them.

[SueEllen]

So, to sum up and correct me I am wrong here: our very own sasguru lives next to council estates and big prison?

Living by Wandsworth prison is suppose to be safe as it's category B.

The council estates are a few miles further from the prison.

Oh and everywhere in London seems to have a prison or some sort of offenders institution not far away from it......

[AtW]

It's like most of London. Council housing which may or may not be in housing estates is mixed with private housing.

So, to sum up and correct me I am wrong here: our very own sasguru lives next to council estates and big prison?

I can understand why DimPrawn decided to live in Newcastle

[AtW]

I hope that clears things up to your satisfaction.

I think only a duel can resolve this argument.