Reply to: agents

[scooterscot]

I will add that there is no longer any money in it and the whole industry has become a process that no longer requires personal contact.

Throntons, HabiTat, Agents... Has Christmas come early?

[DodgyAgent]

Maybe I just got lucky over the years but the only payment issues I had were with agencies and not with the client directly.

I do choose clients carefully though and several times back to the same client as required, often the first contract was through an agency then direct after that which suited both parties.

I've posted about this before but back in the day when there were more contracts than contractors agents were more interested in keeping the people they had and we were really looked after. Different days now which is sad, a real lack of personal contact, interest, an agent really looking out for your needs which suited both of us. It seems nowadays it's just a CV sorting exercise and that done badly.

I will add that there is no longer any money in it and the whole industry has become a process that no longer requires personal contact.

[Cliphead]

Maybe I just got lucky over the years but the only payment issues I had were with agencies and not with the client directly.

I do choose clients carefully though and several times back to the same client as required, often the first contract was through an agency then direct after that which suited both parties.

I've posted about this before but back in the day when there were more contracts than contractors agents were more interested in keeping the people they had and we were really looked after. Different days now which is sad, a real lack of personal contact, interest, an agent really looking out for your needs which suited both of us. It seems nowadays it's just a CV sorting exercise and that done badly.

[Taita]

Why do contractors need agents

Whilst agents may be required to connect contractor with client what I find baffling is why the contract should be three way client -> agent -> contractor. What does the client get out of it ?

The Client gets a legal employment barrier between him and the contractor until the Agency Worker Regulations are implemented in October then the picture becomes confused and we will probably need agents to explain it to us/circumvent disadvantageous conditions.

[eek]

So why do you keep paying a commission to your agent until the end of your contract for work done almost (potentially) 2 years ago?

Why don't I just pay the agent £20K up front?

Because the law says agents can't charge contractors a fee. Also it is the nature of the marketplace and ongoing royalties are fairly standard on sales deals.

Finally personally I don't want to take risks. so I'll happily accept paying an agency a higher fee for payment on results (i.e. while the client is happy with me, I'm happy with the agency being paid).

The issue with the way you are thinking is that its your money but its not. Its the clients money and he can spend it however he wants. If that means there is an agency in the middle and he wants an agency fair enough. If the agency introduces me to the client and offers to act as a factoring service I'm not going to object to the rate he is charging provided

1) I'm happy with my rate
2) he isn't taking the total mickey with the difference between my rate and what the end client is paying.

[singhr]

Agents rock! They find me work, pay me before the client pays them, take me out for slap up lunches, invite me to sports events they sponsor and haggle rate increases if I feel like renewing - what's not to like?

[Paddy]

Seriously...why do contractors need agents?

I first contracted in London in 1993. I have worked in every single sector you can think of in the UK, from 22 quid an hour to over a grand a day and one thing stands out compared to the general recruitment approach internationally.

UK IT recruiting is a completely unprofessional arena.

Now it's even spread to Australia with the plethora of UK nats there.

7 words...cut costs, go straight to the client!

Without an agent; who would do the bull-schitting

[scooterscot]

If I ever sign something the PCG have created is the day I give up contracting. Buffons the lot of them.

Without prejudice.

My own experiences have been fairly positive, even got legal advise when I had to tailor a contract for a Norwegian client.

[minestrone]

Did you use draft PCG contract templates?

I've had clients comment on the quality of these asking who drafted them for me!

I had to get them to change the contract to modify it towards a person -> company -> client arrangement rather than the standard temp contract they offered me. They never had a clue what I was asking this for and just added to the hassle.

If I ever sign something the PCG have created is the day I give up contracting. Buffons the lot of them.

[minestrone]

The market I'm in is being driven by supply/demand. AFAIK agents do little else in that respect except muddy the waters, by being inconsistent with the rates, and by re-packaging CVs to look like the real deal, when the candidates behind them are generally a waste of time. Also, I know most of the agents in my field, and only 2 of them really understand the skillsets - which is incredibly frustrating when you're trying to recruit. I would've thought that the very basic requirement for a 'specialist' recruiter would be an understanding of that specialism, it seems not.

Yes and no, I have got niche a couple of times over my contracting career but eventually equilibrium happens, in my experience of course. Staying ahead of the game is what we get paid for.

The yes is certainly wanting to speak to agents who know more about IT than a good skill of Microsoft office. I think we all have put in for roles we know we can do with our eyes closed but our CV never gets to the manager's desk because the agent cannot marry up the role to the CV. I nail 90% of my face to face interviews but probably about 50% of my CV sends do not get an interview, now that could be interpreted to mean the agent knows the job, the market and my CV but I doubt it. I understand agents get swamped by CVs but if they just had someone who had a clue to say "no don't send that in" and explain the reasons to the agent then I think we would be all happier.

[scooterscot]

I went direct on a gig recently and got a couple of friends in direct as well. Had a terrible time getting paid

Did you use draft PCG contract templates?

I've had clients comment on the quality of these asking who drafted them for me!

[scooterscot]

WDSS

I always look at it as an agent is my salesman taking a commission for the work he has done for me.

So why do you keep paying a commission to your agent until the end of your contract for work done almost (potentially) 2 years ago?

Why don't I just pay the agent £20K up front?

[DodgyAgent]

I'm currently direct at client and it's working well

Must say I don't really miss the agent although in the old days getting taken out for lunch by a fit dolly bird at renewal time was an added bonus ( but this doesn't seem to happen much these days)

Also had a couple of hiccups with payments but resolved as part of the commercial agreement (1 month late due to changes to their systems)

You are so shallow

[Troll]

I'm currently direct at client and it's working well

Must say I don't really miss the agent although in the old days getting taken out for lunch by a fit dolly bird at renewal time was an added bonus ( but this doesn't seem to happen much these days)

Also had a couple of hiccups with payments but resolved as part of the commercial agreement (1 month late due to changes to their systems)

[realityhack]

That is true but you are selling yourself on a market which is fairly directly driven by agent driven costs for your skills. You can get a client who will pick you up but I think they eventually do the sums that you are slightly more cheaper than what the client can get using an agent to find the skills.

The market I'm in is being driven by supply/demand. AFAIK agents do little else in that respect except muddy the waters, by being inconsistent with the rates, and by re-packaging CVs to look like the real deal, when the candidates behind them are generally a waste of time. Also, I know most of the agents in my field, and only 2 of them really understand the skillsets - which is incredibly frustrating when you're trying to recruit. I would've thought that the very basic requirement for a 'specialist' recruiter would be an understanding of that specialism, it seems not.