Reply to: Plan B - Become a burglar

[vetran]

Build some more prisons

They could build a super prison just outside London, all cctv and electric doors to cut running costs.
It can't cost much to have prisoners watched from a central cctv area, food delivered with them locked up and cells designed for hosing down.

Anyone gets cheeky and turn on the sprinklers, sod the idea that they can climb on the roof and throw slates.

Rehabilitation can be via TV programs/video conferencing in the cell earned by good behaviour, limited internet access (OU courses etc).

You could happily have 10,000 inmates in a few square miles and with minimal staffing.

Isolate prisoners from families via glass & warders to get rid of drugs & contraband. Forced detox with methadone for all drug addicts, sod their human rights to be addicted to illegal drugs. Anyone addicted should get treatment before they can go to an open or laxer prison.

Any one who commits pre meditated violence or was risking it e.g. burglary, armed/street robbery gets the high security option for the full term, no messing about.

All the bleeding hearts can watch the cctv to check the prisoners are safe.

Keep the open & older prisons for low risk offenders such as prostitutes,shoplifters, council tax defaulters & Lord Archer. Phase them out slowly using tags.

Just so long as there are good rail / bus links for visitors & staff it would work.

Then flog off the nice prisons in London for conversion to Yuppie flats to pay for it.

Lock people up earlier and spend real money on rehabilitation. 3 strikes & out should mean out for 5 - 10 years then on licence for the rest of your life. You get a second chance but that is about it.

It would stop the ridiculous situation that offenders don't taste jail until they clock up 50 offences.

Spend real money on Youth offenders but with the prospect of punishment if they don't reform. Many kids have poor chances but its their choice to continue with crime.

I bet you would be surprised at how much crime would fall.

It might have stopped this guy getting killed, if he was locked up for his previous offences then he couldn't have threatened some poor householder with a machete.

However they should also bring forward trials, a friend's stepson has been done for receiving a stolen lollipop and lending someone a phone & jacket that turned up at a crime scene(I actually believe that he was in with the wrong crowd, he is a bit silly like that, and may be guilty of something more but that is all they have concrete on him), he breached his bail conditions - had a party and got thrown out of his digs so they locked him up 8 months ago. His trial is next week. OK he is no saint but 8 months without a proper trial seems wrong.

[xoggoth]

If burglars get stabbed, who cares? No loss at all. Don't burgle, it's simple enough.

I do totally agree with the liberal left idea that people are not necessarily to blame for what they are, the link between behaviour and upbringing is beyond dispute in my view. Anyone read about what Rose West went through? Desperation, poverty are all factors too. I just think, in the absence of any simple solution, reasons really don't matter. The goal of society should be happiness for the maximum number of people, and that includes protecting those whose ability and behaviour advance society against those who contribute nothing. Flawed individuals who significantly reduce the wellbeing of society, even when the flaws are not their fault, need to be taken out of the equation.

Setting maximum sentences for specific crimes is simplistic. I'd like to see all sentencing based on assessment of probable future net cost to the rest of society. Courts should look beyond the crime in question at the total contributions of the individual. It should be far more relevant than it is that someone has a previously good record, has started a business that helps the economy or has been active in charities or volunteer work or, conversely, has done previous crimes and lived largely on welfare.

Some "Minor" criminals, like serial shoplifters, when you add in all the costs to the victims, police time and court time cost hundreds of thousands a year. Add in the welfare costs of these useless individuals and it would be far cheaper to imprison them pemanently.

On the other hand, some "serious" offenders, a woman who kills a partner who has abused her over a long period, the normally law abiding individual who gets in a fight he didn't look for and kills with a single punch, are not threats to society and deserve lower sentences.

[vetran]

Burglar was armed with Machete and they arrested the householder?

Good to hear sense prevailed

[SueEllen]

(This would never have happened under a Labour government)

Not true.

A guy was stabbed to death when he tried to break into his neighbours house one night after breaking the front door drunk.

The neighbour who killed him wasn't prosecuted because he was protecting himself and his family.

Unfortunately for the neighbour and family they had to move from the road.

This was in London under Nu Labour.

Point is if you have ever been drunk and violent, or an armed burglar if you break into the wrong houses the occupants have always had to the legal right to use "reasonable" force to protect themselves. Just be careful who you are attacking as you may find an old lady is battered you with her walking stick or the householder has stabbed you to death with your own weapon.

[wobbegong]

BBC News - Salford burglar death: No prosecution over stabbing

CPS Say's no case to answer

(This would never have happened under a Labour government)

[SimonMac]

BBC News - Salford burglar death: No prosecution over stabbing

CPS Say's no case to answer

[doodab]

The mash has summed it up rather well.

Burglars breaking into a Salford household on Wednesday were attacked with a knife stolen from a shop in Levenshulme that had been squatted by criminals from Moss Side.

Jane Thompson, professor of under-class cannibalism at Roehampton University, said: "It's becoming an MC Escher drawing filled with pasty-faced skagheads.

The Daily Mash - Manchester begins to eat itself

[wim121]

If they're caught they'll probably just be sent to Alton Towers as punishment and knowing that their victims will be the ones more likely to be jailed by the police it's a surprise they're aren't more burgulars around

I dont see why we dont adopt some laws from the Middle East ....

- Our government is moaning that they dont have the prison space
- Citizens complain they dont get justice
- Insurers and law enforcers worry about them re-offending if let off



So why dont we just cut a couple of digits off every time they steal instead of imprisonment? Keeps everyone happy and they will find it increasingly harder to steal, the more digits they lose .....

[Mason Boyne]

Nothing like a sweeping generalisation without any hint of truth or facts

Ooooh it must be out the closet socialist time

Being a socialist is alright, just so long as one can afford it.

[amcdonald]

Nothing like a sweeping generalisation without any hint of truth or facts

Ooooh it must be out the closet socialist time

[SimonMac]

If they're caught they'll probably just be sent to Alton Towers as punishment and knowing that their victims will be the ones more likely to be jailed by the police it's a surprise they're aren't more burgulars around

That goodness for human decency or it would replace dole scrounging as the defacto occupation for the chav scum underclass

Nothing like a sweeping generalisation without any hint of truth or facts

[amcdonald]

If they're caught they'll probably just be sent to Alton Towers as punishment and knowing that their victims will be the ones more likely to be jailed by the police it's a surprise they're aren't more burgulars around

Thank goodness for human decency, or it would replace dole scrounging as the defacto occupation for the chav scum underclass

[EternalOptimist]

retreating though ? im still not convinced

what if someone attacks you backwards ?

[wim121]

The yanks legal system doesn't take too kindly to intruders being shot as they are trying to escape. Agreed most states allow you to shoot without warning but if the intruder was clearly retreating, i.e. the police turn up and the would be burglar has been shot in the back and is still half hanging out of the window then chances are you will face prosecution.



They all matter, points 1 and 3 I made relate simply to the householder commuting (or potentially committing) a crime and using the pretext of a burglary to get away with it.
Point 2 is that if the intruder has been scared off and is making an exit then any force is now unreasonable.(see above)

Retreating, yes .....


But I say any theif is fair game regardless of what the law says .....

That's why I wouldnt ever report apprehending a theif, instead I would deal with it myself because Im already well aware justice doesnt exist for victims ....

[wim121]

What puzzles me is why 4 burglars?

Seems like quite a lot of people just to rob a house.

52" TV's are quite heavy

Indeed space.

Also many gangs will clear a house very quickly within minutes, backing a van up to the door.

Some very organised ones will scope out a house months beforehand and be very methodical in doing so.

My grandparents were robbed by one member climbing on top of a flat roof, removing a glass window from the frame, climbing in then a gang of over five people clearing the house of valuables.

What upset my grandparents the most, is the sentiments of what cant be replaced from long ago and abroad.

I don't get drunk and upset people because I might get a beating, I don't steal because I might end up in prison. Fear motivates many to be good, Morals are just a nice way of describing it, maybe fear will stop burglars destroying people's lives.

Our old neighbour spent years under mental health after finding a burglar in her house as she stepped out of her shower. My mother cried when she saw the mess after two professional burglars on bail robbed our house & 30 others, they had stolen a couple of shotguns, good job we were out?

Well said.

Ive had family broken in to, back at my childhood house as well, an outbuilding was broken in to. No home invasions myself yet, however I have had a few car break ins and theft attempts.

Even after just that experience though, I kinda developed an obsession with locks. Will lock the car up, then run back and do a walk around check again. Will check the locks on the house at least five times on each lock before retiring for the night.

I can quite see how many people feel so grossly violated by some scumbag breaking in to their home. A persons home is almost as personal as their own body and many victims of home break ins show similar traumatic stress displayed by victims of rape.