Reply to: Vietnamese builders

[xoggoth]

Minestrone is right. Can't find the link now but recall they account for 60% of skunk cannabis growing. Sometimes kids smuggled from Vietnam to provide the labour. This is an organised crime that links to high tech cannabis growing in Vietnam.

Another of the frequently peddled PC myths is that problems of migrants all stem from racism and marginalisation here. Yet for every instance of major migrant/minority crime or social problems anywhere you will almost always find that same major crime/problem in the originating country. Economic usefulness too, the success of migrants here correlates rather well with the education and dynamism of their countries.

[NotAllThere]

No, but I have been there several times...

Oh I see, you're one of their mules.

[minestrone]

Well, you do live in Saigon.

No, but I have been there several times.

In a hurry to get my train so this was the first link I found, bit old.

Police 'can't cope' as Vietnamese flood drugs trade | UK news | The Observer

They have pretty much all of the UKs hash/grass market and are moving onto selling other stuff.

[singhr]

No I bloody well didn't...

[MarillionFan]

Well, you do live in Saigon.

Minestrone addresses the team.

[NotAllThere]

The Vietnamese control much of the drug trade round here these days.

Well, you do live in Saigon.

[xoggoth]

I don't think it's just welfare that needs reform. We need to educate people well and offer them decent, fulfilling jobs at the end of it

Indeed, actually, that probably is even more important, they need to feel there is something worth trying for. It may also be that for many kids incentives won't work, the damage has already been done during their upbringing. Politicians always come in with this and that quick fix but real changes to society take generations unfortunately.

Perceptions, of chavs or migrants, take a long time to change too. One of the best arguments for the strict control of migrants is to help British minorities, a negative perception created by some who should never have been admitted affects the prospects of those who are able. If they then feel they have no prospects they too might end up in the underclass and that creates more negative perceptions. There are complex feedbacks in these things, hard to reverse.

[minestrone]

The Vietnamese control much of the drug trade round here these days.

[xoggoth]

The guy couldn't speak English so how is he going to understand the building regs that the indigenous builders are bound up in? Who picks up the tab for his wife and kids use of our infrastructure and safety nets?

Perfectly valid points, nothing racist about them. A moan about a useful guy just for being Vietnamese would be racist. I don't think most people are racist in the correct sense of the word, they are fed up with the way their own valid concerns and natural desire for a culture of theor own has been ignored for so many decades. If we had from controls and the majority of migrants were law abiding, high earning, English speaking citizens who accepted Western values I doubt many would care about colour/origin.

It is time those in favour of huge immigration of the unskilled, the uneducated, the non English speaking and those with entirely unnaceptable beliefs on women/gays/whatever tried to argue their case without resorting to this you must be racist/Enoch crap.

[doodab]

In so far as we do have far too many idle chavs the solution is to address that by reform of our welfare system not further ruin any chances they do have of getting jobs. If we do not change our welfare culture the genuinely hard working migrants are only going to get as lazy as the rest in due course.

I don't think it's just welfare that needs reform. We need to educate people well and offer them decent, fulfilling jobs at the end of it.

[xoggoth]

It is a pity that some who trot out this guff about white chavs being lazy compared to hard working migrants don't try looking at some of the details on various migrant BME groups from the ONS and other reputable sources. Indians/Chinese generally do better than average but other major groups have higher crime/welfare/social housing, worse qualifications/health than the white indigenous population. We are not talking percentage points but multiples. Couple of relevant recent news item here:

Unemployment falls in South Tyneside - Local News - Shields Gazette
Tower Hamlets most at risk of unemployment in the country - News - East London Advertiser

The main point is that we should have strong controls and ONLY be taking the very best, we do not have a duty to take the others. We don't expect Oz or Canada to take our sink estate youths along with our engineers so why do we take in the uneducated and non English speaking?

In so far as we do have far too many idle chavs the solution is to address that by reform of our welfare system not further ruin any chances they do have of getting jobs. If we do not change our welfare culture the genuinely hard working migrants are only going to get as lazy as the rest in due course.

[rsingh]

You think the meaning was obviously not racist. I think it was unclear and could easily be taken as such. R Singh agreed.

No I bloody well didn't...

[NotAllThere]

Yet could easily be referred to as Vietnamese in the media, as a description of ethnic origin, rather than a description of nationality.

You think the meaning was obviously not racist. I think it was unclear and could easily be taken as such. R Singh agreed. Churchill has apparently forgiven me my typos. We're all one big happy family.

[DodgyAgent]

My brother-in-law is Vietnamese and a civil engineer, having graduated from Heriott-Watt in 1986. He's also been a British citizen since 1990.

.

Then he is British and not Vietnamese.

[DodgyAgent]

In that case, you've not received an infraction for being racist, but rather have received an infraction for being careless - as detailed in the infraction email. I find it hard to see how "I can just about stomach Polish builders coming over here but this is taking it to another level" could be construed in any other way, especially in conjunction with the comment about using "our" safety net and infrastructure, and wondering who's going to pick up the tab.

The hit and run driver has now been, apparently, been caught. Walthamstow hit-and-run death crash: Two arrests - News - London 24

I am intrigued that what to my mind is a perfectly legitimate statement (foreign workers coming to take British jobs and who pays for their kids health and education?)) has now been labelled as racist. I wholeheartedly support Polish workers coming here, because we have reciprocal rights to work over there but I certainly do not believe that an alternative view is racist. I will say however that Vietnamese just as Indians, Brazilians have in my mind no legitimate reason for working in a trade that has no support from any immigration perspective that I can see. Apart from the British being peeved by this (and yes how on earth have they got permits to work here) I would imagine that the Poles and Romanians would have a right to ask a similar question.