Reply to: "Right of Reimbursement" clause in CP contract

[vetran]

Who is first to breach?

Have they breached the contract in any way? Late payments, false representation etc? That you can prove?

Get legal advice! It may be a few quid but its better than all this stress. All CP seem to have is weenie Barrack room lawyers - a bit like here.

[malvolio]

<<Next time always remain opted in and always insist on a notice period that will allow you to terminate early, should another better opportunity arise.>>

I asked one agent what happens if I opt of the employment regs. She replied that it's the agency policy not to put candidates forward who opt in.

Also CPs contract are actually their standard terms and conditions and because they can’t be negotiated they are not enforceable according to the 2001 Unfair Business Terms and Conditions Act.

Which agency - it's important because that is illegal and I keep hearing about it. It only takes one examle to get the DTI out of the comfy chairs...

[JohnnyLow]

Good info lads. I may sleep tonight yet.

One other thought. Even if they were entitled to hit me up for damages, would this not be covered by my PI & PL insurance with my umbrella?

I don't have the details, but my welcome email reads "The PI Insurance is to cover you in the event you were to default on the end client’s site. As a contractor, you would not be covered under their company policy as you are not a permanent employee of the company. In the event they were sued as a result of your default, they would be obliged to recoup this cost from you the individual.".

Damn this contracting business is stressful sometimes.

[Clog II The Avenger]

Effing CP

<<Next time always remain opted in and always insist on a notice period that will allow you to terminate early, should another better opportunity arise.>>

I asked one agent what happens if I opt of the employment regs. She replied that it's the agency policy not to put candidates forward who opt in.

Also CPs contract are actually their standard terms and conditions and because they can’t be negotiated they are not enforceable according to the 2001 Unfair Business Terms and Conditions Act.

[privateeye]

P.S. I forgot to add, the nice people at CP insisted today that I can be sued to recover all of the money I have already been paid for the contract.

This sounds completely absurd to me.

After todays ruling in the courts that contractors can be made employees of the client - and with a contract such as CP's it is likely the same court would consider you an employee. With the way CP are behaving you have a great case for Constructive Dismissal.

People like CP always threaten legal action because they use only immature graduates as recruiters. They do not use properly trained professional consultants such as Dodgy but recruit their staff straight off the playground hence their rather my dads bigger than your dad type attitude. Holiday/sickness may be your only option after getting time sheets signed and submitted etc

[JohnnyLow]

P.S. I forgot to add, the nice people at CP insisted today that I can be sued to recover all of the money I have already been paid for the contract.

This sounds completely absurd to me.

[JohnnyLow]

Cheers mate.

It must be stressed though that there is no reciprical notice period on my side. Could be the killer clause.

I definately plan to stick to my guns though.

[malvolio]

Like I said, go on holiday, they have no control over that. CP do not manage you, the client does. Perhaps tell the client you need a break because of the pressure the agency is putting you under - that'll go down well. Also, write to the agent's unit manager and tell them to wind their neck in, write to REC and tell them and talk to your umbrella (they won't care, but at least they'll be prepared) .

More realistically, whatever notice period you've got, you can invoke it. If they then threaten to sue, they've broken the contract and you can walk immediately.

Good luck. It's a bit frightening telling multi-million pound companies where to get off, but you're the professioanl here, not CP. As DA says, the chance of getting sued in miniscule, so play hard ball. And if it does go pear shaped, go to the press!

[JohnnyLow]

I feel a nice long holiday coming on. Four weeks, perhaps? Have a word with the client...

That's the other threat they made; that I am not to mention anything regarding the contract to the client or I risk being sued as well.

This is driving me mental.

[malvolio]

I feel a nice long holiday coming on. Four weeks, perhaps? Have a word with the client...

[JohnnyLow]

I reckon that you would be safe to leave, but better off giving 4 weeks notice and telling the client exactly why. Maybe stay untill a replacement is found, and in the meantime do what you can to get yourself another job. The agency wont be able to sue you if you leave the contract early, or at least they wont bother (or should'nt). If you go back either direct or through another agency they may be able to sue you for up to 6 months of loss of margin.

What I think you need to understand is that contractual clauses are there to act as a last resort option. Very few contractors or agents are ever likely to go to court over breaches of contract (such clauses are debated unnecessarily on this site ad infinatum) . Non payment of invoices is different, so if you leave and they try to withold your pay in lieu of damages they cannot.

If you are concerned about legal issues then I strongly suggest that you take some legal advice.

OK so I went and met with them face to face.

Basically they spent the better part of an hour threatening to sue my umbrella company (and hence me) for lost revenue. They threw around figures of £20,000. Note that the total value of the contract is around 15,000 over 6 months, and they claim to only be taking a 10% cut of that (so around £1500). They claim all they need to do is pluck a figure out of the air, hand it to the brolly, and the brolly will pay it then pursue me.

I call bulltulip, but I'm kind of worried at the same time.

[malvolio]

I reckon that you would be safe to leave, but better off giving 4 weeks notice and telling the client exactly why. Maybe stay untill a replacement is found, and in the meantime do what you can to get yourself another job. The agency wont be able to sue you if you leave the contract early, or at least they wont bother (or should'nt). If you go back either direct or through another agency they may be able to sue you for up to 6 months of loss of margin.

What I think you need to understand is that contractual clauses are there to act as a last resort option. Very few contractors or agents are ever likely to go to court over breaches of contract (such clauses are debated unnecessarily on this site ad infinatum) . Non payment of invoices is different, so if you leave and they try to withold your pay in lieu of damages they cannot.

If you are concerned about legal issues then I strongly suggest that you take some legal advice.

F*** me DA - you have been listening after all, I agree with all of that!

Now stop being a professional at once and go back to being adversarial, it's much more fun.

[MrsGoof]

If there is insufficient work at the client site, speak to them and see if they are willing to let you go.

[DodgyAgent]

So you're saying I'm screwed?

Or would they just take the £500 and be done with it?

I reckon that you would be safe to leave, but better off giving 4 weeks notice and telling the client exactly why. Maybe stay untill a replacement is found, and in the meantime do what you can to get yourself another job. The agency wont be able to sue you if you leave the contract early, or at least they wont bother (or should'nt). If you go back either direct or through another agency they may be able to sue you for up to 6 months of loss of margin.

What I think you need to understand is that contractual clauses are there to act as a last resort option. Very few contractors or agents are ever likely to go to court over breaches of contract (such clauses are debated unnecessarily on this site ad infinatum) . Non payment of invoices is different, so if you leave and they try to withold your pay in lieu of damages they cannot.

If you are concerned about legal issues then I strongly suggest that you take some legal advice.

[Mailman]

If they are paying you two weeks behind then just go on leave for 3 weeks, get all your outstanding money paid out and then drop them like they are something hot (oh, schnap! ).

Meanwhile, while you are on holiday from your CP contract you have already started your other contract and one flick of the knife and Bobs your aunty!

Mailman