Reply to: Public sector workers to sacrifice their pensions

[Sysman]

That view is rather out of date. Civil Service/Public sector pay is at least on par with the private sector these days. The argument they put forwards to justify the change was it was required to hire suitably skilled people.

This trend was starting in the early 90s. A mate in the local council was already looking into car lease schemes as a way of attracting staff, using the same argument. Previously, nobody except the mayor got a company car out of the council.

[Gibbon]

**** off. How's that for a succinct response.

Well it does what is says on the tin but more work is needed in tailoring a more relevant response. Also the second half is pure narrative and not really arguing or demonstrating the point. It also leaves the reader wondering whether it is a direct question or a statement, if a statement then some rewording is needed or else you missed out the question mark. 5/10, so still a pass but we know that thirds don't really get you anywhere these days.

[Twilkes]

That's why in rural areas and Scotland there isn't a shortage of primary school teachers or secondary school teachers in non-Maths and non-Scientific disciplines.

There isn't a shortage of teachers in rural area because teaching in a village school is a GREAT job to have. And there isn't a shortage of teachers in Scotland because they trained up way too many of them over the past few years, and a lot of NQTs end up with patchy supply work for the first couple of years.

A lot of people would stay in the public sector because of the pension, but I'm not sure how many people would apply to the public sector, just because of the pension [Ben Bawden aside].

It's more likely to be the paid breaks and biscuits.

[SueEllen]

This takes the piss -

Amy Lassman is one of millions of public sector workers who will have less cash if Hutton's sweeping changes to state pensions go ahead. The 36-year-old teacher at an inner-city London primary school earns £40,000 a year and contributes £216 a month to her pension. This will go up to about £316 a month over the next three years because teachers' contributions will rise, on average, from 6.4% of their salary to 9.4%.

A public sector pension was one of a number of reasons why Ben Bawden decided to work for a hospital. The systems developer at a Greater London hospital says while his NHS pension is "fairly generous", his overall pay is less than he would earn in the private sector.

The 35-year-old earns £50,000 a year and puts about £125 a month in his pension.

Sorry linky

[Churchill]

Look, just because your family are lazy and some of you can post tulipe on the internet all day long, don't make sweeping crass generalisations about the rest of us.

**** off. How's that for a succinct response.

[Gibbon]

Spare me the bleeding heart liberalism. Yes I've seen EMI care homes. I've seen EMI people shuffled round hospitals, not just wards at weekends to find beds for them because there's no-one able/willing to look after them.

My Father worked in the public sector, my Mother worked in the public sector, my Brother and his wife work in the public sector.

They all have a cushy number. Apart from my Dad who is dead but my Mother is receiving half of his pension on top of her full pension.

Next question.

Look, just because your family are lazy and some of you can post tulipe on the internet all day long, don't make sweeping crass generalisations about the rest of us.

[TimberWolf]

That's why in rural areas and Scotland there isn't a shortage of primary school teachers or secondary school teachers in non-Maths and non-Scientific disciplines.

While teachers can get lots of sh*t in the classroom, from heads and from governors compared to most people in rural areas they know they are onto a crushy number.

The reform that is needed is to make their retirement age higher.

There needs to be a change in attitude so that when people hit 60 or so, instead of expecting them to work full-time they are expected to work part-time for 10 years or so before they draw their pensions. I was taught in secondary school (in inner city London) by "retired" science teachers and know other more mature teachers who also work part-time.

I like the idea of using more mature teachers.

Re 'sh*t', I think a major and long overdue reform needs to be made in this area. Children should be quiet and disciplined in class and teachers should not have to tolerate any kind of sh*t from pupils or their parents. This should be enforced vigorously and as a priority. Society as a whole would benefit too.

Did anyone say birch

[SueEllen]

I was shocked at hearing on the news that a teacher will receive a 21K pension under the new system. How is this affordable? I suspect a reform or two more will be required yet.

That's why in rural areas and Scotland there isn't a shortage of primary school teachers or secondary school teachers in non-Maths and non-Scientific disciplines.

While teachers can get lots of sh*t in the classroom, from heads and from governors compared to most people in rural areas they know they are onto a crushy number.

The reform that is needed is to make their retirement age higher.

There needs to be a change in attitude so that when people hit 60 or so, instead of expecting them to work full-time they are expected to work part-time for 10 years or so before they draw their pensions. I was taught in secondary school (in inner city London) by "retired" science teachers and know other more mature teachers who also work part-time.

[TykeMerc]

For an average public sector job, the pension is the only good bit because the pay sure ain't.

That view is rather out of date. Civil Service/Public sector pay is at least on par with the private sector these days. The argument they put forwards to justify the change was it was required to hire suitably skilled people.

[vetran]

we need a Boo-hoo smilie

for these threads and any about Cherie or Jacqui getting caught in embarrassing situations.

Mod please help!

[TimberWolf]

Yes, the pay is now better than equivalent private sector jobs.

And in case some of you have forgotten, in the private sector they fund their own pensions PLUS the pensions of those in the public sector.

Some sort of reform is well overdue.

I was shocked at hearing on the news that a teacher will receive a 21K pension under the new system. How is this affordable? I suspect a reform or two more will be required yet.

[Doggy Styles]

Wind back 15 years and that was the case.

Nowadays public sector rates are pretty decent - for the job being done. It struggles in some areas - but the average public sector worker (whoever that is) would stuggle to earn much more in the private sector - doing a job with equivalent skills and experience requirements.

Yes, the pay is now better than equivalent private sector jobs.

And in case some of you have forgotten, in the private sector they fund their own pensions PLUS the pensions of those in the public sector.

Some sort of reform is well overdue.

[Board Game Geek]

Don't know where you are in the UK but where I am lots of roles are outsourced. So the councils, hospitals etc ensure they don't pay the relevant public sector pensions to the "little people". Even if they aren't they like hiring people on short term contracts.

Spot on from my experience where I worked. Our department of IT bods started off with 25 people in 2006, and by 2010 was down to about 12.

Of those 12, 1 was a permie for the local government organisation we worked for.

The other 11 were contractors, on rolling 3 monthly contracts. I started on the same daily rate in 2005 (I joined the year before elsewhere and was moved in to the team), and when I left in 2010, my rate was still the same rate, although my role had changed and I did additional work.

Cushy it certainly wasn't. Other departments were also full of contractors too.

I reckon there were probably only about 40 or so people out of 400 who were permies.

[centurian]

For an average public sector job, the pension is the only good bit because the pay sure ain't.

Wind back 15 years and that was the case.

Nowadays public sector rates are pretty decent - for the job being done. It struggles in some areas - but the average public sector worker (whoever that is) would stuggle to earn much more in the private sector - doing a job with equivalent skills and experience requirements.

[xoggoth]

For an average public sector job, the pension is the only good bit because the pay sure ain't

It a job attracts the necessary number of suitable staff then the total package (including factors like security as well as pay) is adequate by definition. If they have difficulty finding staff for any role then they will resumably have to pay better. I suspect it mostly won't be necessary.

There is a problem with divorcing public sector pay from market forces and having a union imposed common pay structure in that there is a shortage in specific geographical areas and specialities, teachers in the poorer areas with large numbers of problematic children for example.