Reply to: Jazz

[Mich the Tester]

My old boy was a director of Scottish Opera and packed it in after telling them repeatedly that they had to pull back their spending. No matter how much they got from the government they just spent more and more, they could not be trusted with the cheque book.

Well I guess that's forgiveable, after all I wouldn't employ a professional musician to do the bookkeeping. Sounds like they needed a solid manager in control of the dosh.

[minestrone]

Oooh, you'll be opening a whole new can of worms there, what with all the Daily Wail readers on CUK.

ps I agree with subsidies for orchestras

My old boy was a director of Scottish Opera and packed it in after telling them repeatedly that they had to pull back their spending. No matter how much they got from the government they just spent more and more, they could not be trusted with the cheque book.

[Mich the Tester]

That's it with big bands, either OAP's or school kids, not much in between. I played in a big band at school and it was gr8. I did practice with a band full of OAP's, they really were brilliant. The problem with Big band is that you don't really get paid, just expenses, otherwise it would be going down a storm, that's why it's usually OAP's doing it, and of course you can't fit a big band in most pubs. It's a bit like an orchestra needs to be subsidised.

Oooh, you'll be opening a whole new can of worms there, what with all the Daily Wail readers on CUK.

ps I agree with subsidies for orchestras

[BlasterBates]

That's it with big bands, either OAP's or school kids, not much in between. I played in a big band at school and it was gr8. I did practice with a band full of OAP's, they really were brilliant. The problem with Big band is that you don't really get paid, just expenses, otherwise it would be going down a storm, that's why it's usually OAP's doing it, and of course you can't fit a big band in most pubs. It's a bit like an orchestra needs to be subsidised.

[Mich the Tester]

The thing about jazz is that it's great when you go to a bar and there's a jazz quartet playing, just adds a nice atmosphere, I don't think most of the time jazz pretends to be any more than that. It's a live thing. I don't have any Jazz records and I would never go and buy one but it's nice to go in a bar to find a jazz band. I don't find much of a difference between a "random no name" Jazz band or a "random no name" rock band, it's all good stuff when it's live just different. Glen Miller on record sounds pretty lame, but in my opinion live big band rates very highly compared to everything else. I remember when the Marines big band came to play at our school years ago, everyone thought they were f***ing brilliant. I'd rather listen to Goldfinger than Lady Gaga if I'm honest.

Not necessarily big band, but I got interested in swing music when we bought a box full of vinyl LPs for next to nothing and found some albums in it by the Dutch Swing College Band; we played them just to see what it's like. We were hooked immediately. We've seen them live too and my goodness they can play. Would love to see a big band sometime.

At the Dutch Swing College Band concert, most of the visitors were in their 80s, plus a few young music students from the conservatory who were, if you like, 'discovering' swing music all over again. Now usually I wouldn't choose to go out with a bunch of OAPs for an evening, but these OAPs were somewhat different to most. Swing music was banned during the war in occupied Holland (Nazis considered all forms of Jazz to be 'degenerate', and the 'swing kids', just as in Germany, were the counter culture youth of their time. The DSC were a big part of that counter culture in Holland, and in fact risked their lives by playing. Fascinating people, great music, amazing story.

In fact, the DSC, as they're known here, are now working on setting up a youth jazz orchestra to train young musicians in many forms of jazz, and keep a very important bit of culture going.

[pacharan]

For all you charlatans denigrating jazz music, try listening to Miles Davis' Sketches of Spain or My Favourite Things by John Coltrane.

Actually, just been listening to The Adventures Of Gregory Peccary. Wonderful; guess you could call that jazz.

[BlasterBates]

The thing about jazz is that it's great when you go to a bar and there's a jazz quartet playing, just adds a nice atmosphere, I don't think most of the time jazz pretends to be any more than that. It's a live thing. I don't have any Jazz records and I would never go and buy one but it's nice to go in a bar to find a jazz band. I don't find much of a difference between a "random no name" Jazz band or a "random no name" rock band, it's all good stuff when it's live just different. Glen Miller on record sounds pretty lame, but in my opinion live big band rates very highly compared to everything else. I remember when the Marines big band came to play at our school years ago, everyone thought they were f***ing brilliant. I'd rather listen to Goldfinger than Lady Gaga if I'm honest.

[lukemg]

It's simple - Jazz is 4 people all playing a different tune....

[Mich the Tester]

They can shoot off in whatever self propelled archaic nonsense chord progression they want to go to. Jazz fans want nothing more that to be loved for their music because nobody else likes it, they are the designer clothes wearing self absorbed tarts of the music world who turn to a party and get pissed off when everyone is wearing designer clothes. If everyone was listening to jazz jazz fans would be experimenting with Kylie bootlegs.

That word sums up the point of a lot of music and art.

[Jog On]

They can shoot off in whatever self propelled archaic nonsense chord progression they want to go to. Jazz fans want nothing more that to be loved for their music because nobody else likes it, they are the designer clothes wearing self absorbed tarts of the music world who turn to a party and get pissed off when everyone is wearing designer clothes. If everyone was listening to jazz jazz fans would be experimenting with Kylie bootlegs.

Wow you really hate jazz music?

What music do you like? I'm willing to bet money that it's originated from jazz

[TykeMerc]

They can shoot off in whatever self propelled archaic nonsense chord progression they want to go to. Jazz fans want nothing more that to be loved for their music because nobody else likes it, they are the designer clothes wearing self absorbed tarts of the music world who turn to a party and get pissed off when everyone is wearing designer clothes. If everyone was listening to jazz jazz fans would be experimenting with Kylie bootlegs.

So what you're saying is fans of modern jazz are pretentious tossers?

Perhaps overgeneralised, but not excessive as statements go

[Mich the Tester]

They can shoot off in whatever self propelled archaic nonsense chord progression they want to go to. Jazz fans want nothing more that to be loved for their music because nobody else likes it, they are the designer clothes wearing self absorbed tarts of the music world who turn to a party and get pissed off when everyone is wearing designer clothes. If everyone was listening to jazz jazz fans would be experimenting with Kylie bootlegs.

But now you're talking about the fans, who may or may not be tossers, just as the fans of other kinds of music may be tossers. Your original question was about the point of the music itself, which I've tried to answer in a somewhat incomplete fashion.

[minestrone]

Perhaps, yes; is that a problem?

They can shoot off in whatever self propelled archaic nonsense chord progression they want to go to. Jazz fans want nothing more that to be loved for their music because nobody else likes it, they are the designer clothes wearing self absorbed tarts of the music world who turn to a party and get pissed off when everyone is wearing designer clothes. If everyone was listening to jazz jazz fans would be experimenting with Kylie bootlegs.

[OwlHoot]

If you want music to develop and change, you have to accept that people make experimental music that doesn't have a mass appeal. I get the impression that some modern jazz, as with some modern classical music and some modern art is actually an exploration of new ideas; the new ideas might only appeal to die-hard afficionados, but some ideas will be picked up and applied in other forms of music. That doesn't mean you have to like that music (or art), but it can be one of the reasons why it's worth making it.

True - A lot of "modern classical" music, of the kind they occasionally play on Radio 3, sounds literally like a succession of random squeaks and whistles, with the occasional clash of dustbin lids. Experts claim there are subtle rhythms, but I could never discern any patterns when I once tried listening to the insufferable stuff!

But then in the early 19th century, old-timers complained bitterly about the unconventional, chaotic style of music being developed by people like Brahms and Mendelssohn, which went against all the Baroque principles.

[Mich the Tester]

It is music that goes out to be different and unpalatable to what it thinks is mainstream.

Perhaps, yes; is that a problem?