Reply to: Heavy Sentences

[xoggoth]

Good point. (Just waiting to see who would spot that one) They don't seem to have a significant problem if Wikipedia is accurate.

[EternalOptimist]

Hmmm. But assuming that legalising drugs would lead to a big increase of usage, which would seem likely, what would increased drug use cost in terms of health and other issues? Just take cannabis alone - heart attacks, lung cancer, mental problems. Add to that the less definable effects on motivation:




DrugScope | RESOURCES | Cannabis

You dont have to make too many assumptions, just cf countries that do have legalised cannabis consumption. I havnt looked into it, but whats the situation in Holland for example

[xoggoth]

Hmmm. But assuming that legalising drugs would lead to a big increase of usage, which would seem likely, what would increased drug use cost in terms of health and other issues? Just take cannabis alone - heart attacks, lung cancer, mental problems. Add to that the less definable effects on motivation:

Even so regular users can become psychologically dependent and come to rely on using cannabis to get them through the day. Cannabis dependent users who stop can experience psychological craving , decreased appetite, lethargy, mood changes and insomnia. It is not unknown for some people to use cannabis so frequently that they are almost constantly stoned.
...
Someone who uses cannabis excessively may appear apathetic, lack energy and motivation and perform poorly at their work or education.

DrugScope | RESOURCES | Cannabis

[Freamon]

Interesting infographic on the potential tax revenues from drug legalisation, and comparison with a few other big ticket items of govt spending (or non-spending):



Legalising drugs: would it work, by Information is Beautiful | News | guardian.co.uk

Obviously this doesn't account for the money saved on policing etc.

[AtW]

and a big increase in serious crimes, such as kidnapping and extortion, by crims denied the opportunity to be drug dealers.

What do you base this on? Kidnapping and extortion are difficult to do crimes - police is well equipped to deal with those, they also carry very long jail sentences. Drug dealer can get legit jobs in those drug shops anyway

[OwlHoot]

Drugs are problem because people who use them usually cant afford so they have to commit crimes - buying in bulk from Taleban would provide cheap drugs that can be issued by state - result will be big reduction in crimes committed by drugs addicts.

and a big increase in serious crimes, such as kidnapping and extortion, by crims denied the opportunity to be drug dealers.

[d000hg]

We need real democracy. People know instinctively what they want and a broad consensus of Sun readers is a better guide to what works in society than the unworkable ideas of an educated elite.

I can't think of anything worse. I'd rather an intelligent, well educated toff was in charge than a bunch of "down-to-earth" lorry drivers.

I refer you to shaunbhoy's signature

[VectraMan]

Given that it is far more addictive, imagine the consequences if its use became as widespread as that of alcohol. The legalising drugs argument often seems to ignore the fact that drugs are less of a problem only because they are used by far fewer people. Dependency, cancers, heart disease, depression and psychosis would all rocket if most of us used them.

But is the only reason drugs are used by less people because they're illegal? Obviously the supply exists if people want to find it; being illegal (and these harsh sentences) only really succeed in pushing the price up, and pushing up the rewards for the dealers.

A lot less people smoke than they used to, and that's without cigarettes being illegal. Why do we assume that if drugs are legal the entire population are suddenly going to go mad and become addicts?

[AtW]

The legalising drugs argument often seems to ignore the fact that drugs are less of a problem only because they are used by far fewer people.

Drugs are problem because people who use them usually cant afford so they have to commit crimes - buying in bulk from Taleban would provide cheap drugs that can be issued by state - result will be big reduction in crimes committed by drugs addicts.

[xoggoth]

Is cocaine definitely more dangerous than alcohol?

Given that it is far more addictive, imagine the consequences if its use became as widespread as that of alcohol. The legalising drugs argument often seems to ignore the fact that drugs are less of a problem only because they are used by far fewer people. Dependency, cancers, heart disease, depression and psychosis would all rocket if most of us used them.

PS Look at the effects of the so called mild drug Khat in Yemen on that country. Most illegal drugs are way worse than that.

[EternalOptimist]

fckng baggage handler should have got 99 years.
they lost the wifes case in 2000, and it didnt turn up for ten days. bastids.
she had all her valuables in that case


and how was I supposed to know that the woman in the vibro shop wasnt a sales assistant?

[AtW]

might make others think again.

No, it won't.

The only deterrence this prison term has got is that those guys won't be doing it whilst they are in prison (well they'll probably smuggle drugs into prison but that's limited impact).

[VectraMan]

19 years seems fine and might make others think again.

Have countries with the death penalty for drug smuggling completely solved their drug problems?

[xoggoth]

Organising a major plot to smuggle £4.5m is hardly comparable to some addict smuggling a bit in for him and his mates or some drug mule who is playing a small part. Waste of space, 19 years seems fine and might make others think again.

Shouldn't a government act in the same way, looking after their voters and acting in their interests even when the voters mightn't like it?

Great if they did but look at governments around the world and there is little sign of enlightened or sensible leadership, only self interest, egotistical empire building and grandiose idealism. The idea that our rulers have enlightened viewpoints over issues like the EU and immigration is an illusion arising from the fact that they simply choose different allegiances and define their predudices in different ways. If you give government the power to decide what is best for the people what is to stop them acting any way they want?

We need real democracy. People know instinctively what they want and a broad consensus of Sun readers is a better guide to what works in society than the unworkable ideas of an educated elite.

[VectraMan]

A good parent won't simply give children all the sweets they can eat because "they want them". Shouldn't a government act in the same way, looking after their voters and acting in their interests even when the voters mightn't like it?

Which is why democracy is a fundamentally bad idea.