Reply to: Salary Being Paid To HMRC - Who Then Pass On What You Are Due

[Ignis Fatuus]

First World War

At the start of the war income tax sat at 6 per cent. By 1918, it had risen to 30 per cent. Meanwhile, an excess profits duty raised revenue and removed the excessive profits firms had made from the war effort. With this and other tax changes, the total collected rose to over £580m – 17 times the 1905 figure. Tax was very much a part of daily life.

We all lost WWI. The first Total War brought in more government, laws, control, and high taxes - everything from 30% tax and removal of the Bill of Rights' right to bear arms, to passport and ID controls and even pub closing time. Few of these temporary restrictions on our freedom have ever gone away.

[sunnysan]

Lib Dems

Are neither liberal or democratic.

The are unhinged pathological communists. The sooner they are slapped down to obscurity again the better.

That Cable is redder than a postbox

[AlfredJPruffock]

You learn something new every day ...

Earlier in this thread I refered that Income Tax was introduced to fund the Napoelonic Wars and that its time it was axed - what I didnt realise was that following the defeat of Napoleon ... income tax was repealed to "a thundering peal of applause" in Parliament.

All documents connected with it were collected, cut into pieces and pulped.

Good show.

Income Tax dominated the 1874 election, with The Times proclaiming that "it is now evident that whoever is Chancellor... income tax will be abolished". Disraeli won, but tax stayed.







The Napoleonic wars

The first British income tax arrived in 1799 under William Pitt the Younger. A temporary means to stave off Napoleon, it was applied at a rate of 10 per cent on total income and paid in six equal installments. A year after Napoleon was defeated, income tax was repealed to "a thundering peal of applause" in Parliament. All documents connected with it were collected, cut into pieces and pulped.

Peel, Gladstone and Disraeli

Tax made a surprise return in 1842 under Conservative Prime Minister Sir Robert Peel. Peel sought only to tax those with incomes above £150, and he reduced customs duties. The less wealthy benefited, and trade revived. The second half of the 19th century was dominated by Benjamin Disraeli and William Ewart Gladstone. Both campaigned for the abolition of income tax, but neither managed to achieve it. The issue dominated the 1874 election, with The Times proclaiming that "it is now evident that whoever is Chancellor... income tax will be abolished". Disraeli won, but tax stayed.

A new way of thinking

The Liberals won the 1905 election thanks to a pact with Labour, and a new way of thinking came about. Tax was seen as a way of supporting the people. In 1907, Chancellor Herbert Asquith introduced "differentiation," taxing less on earnings than on investments. Lloyd George, meanwhile, introduced non-contributory old-age pensions and, in the "People's Budget" of 1909, plans for a super-tax for the rich.

First World War

At the start of the war income tax sat at 6 per cent. By 1918, it had risen to 30 per cent. Meanwhile, an excess profits duty raised revenue and removed the excessive profits firms had made from the war effort. With this and other tax changes, the total collected rose to over £580m – 17 times the 1905 figure. Tax was very much a part of daily life.

Second World War

The outbreak of the Second World War prompted immediate revenue raising measures, with finance framed as "the fourth arm of defence." In 1939, the standard rate of income tax was 29 per cent. By 1944-45 it was 48 per cent for incomes over £20,000. An excess profits tax introduced for business raised further revenue, though was repealed in 1946.

Post-war Pay-As-You-Earn

The growing number of taxpayers during the war led to the more efficient Pay-As-You-Earn system from 1944. Tax began to be deducted by employers, and a worker leaving work was given a P45. The National Health Service was introduced in 1948, and, with the rise of the Welfare State, tax provisions changed. Corporation tax and capital gains tax were introduced, along with value added tax to replace purchase tax. In 1992, the Queen began to pay tax on her income.

[d000hg]

Thanks to the expenses scandal we all know how crooked our MP's are. So who is Nick Clegg the independently wealthy son of multi-millionaire non domiciled Bankster, to lecture anyone?

One more public schoolboy on the Hate list for me.

You're right, we'd be better being lectured by poorly educated, unintelligent working-class 'salt of the earth'. They'd know sod all about anything but at least they'd be easy to empathise with.

I really don't see this argument. It's like saying you have to be a great footballer to be a great manager, or an ex-champion jockey to run a successful stable - rubbish.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

A few years ago a spoof tax form appeared in a student rag week mag, with one box saying something like:



and now it sounds like that will be in effect how it works!

Why on Earth don't they just abolish PAYE entirely and increase tax on consumables, with a non-linear scale so poor people don't lose out disproportionately on necessities?

In any case, in a few years they will be able to tax every money transfer when electronic money cards are the only means to make these.

"Reforming" the PAYE system now would be like spending 100 billion converting the UK to driving on the right, when it will cost practically nothing in twenty or thirty years, or be totally unnecessary, because by then all vehicles on public highways will be robot-driven anyway. I bet HMRC CIVIL SERVANTS are behind this again, the imbeciles.

fixed that for you

[MarillionFan]

A few years ago a spoof tax form appeared in a student rag week mag, with one box saying something like:



and now it sounds like that will be in effect how it works!

Why on Earth don't they just abolish PAYE entirely and increase tax on consumables, with a non-linear scale so poor people don't lose out disproportionately on necessities?

In any case, in a few years they will be able to tax every money transfer when electronic money cards are the only means to make these.

"Reforming" the PAYE system now would be like spending 100 billion converting the UK to driving on the right, when it will cost practically nothing in twenty or thirty years, or be totally unnecessary, because by then all vehicles on public highways will be robot-driven anyway. I bet the Lib Dems are behind this again, the imbeciles.

Because poor people smoke fags, eat tulip food and drink beer, while rich people eat caviar, drink champagne and hang themselves in wardrobes while eating oranges!

Oh I see what you've done there....

[OwlHoot]

A few years ago a spoof tax form appeared in a student rag week mag, with one box saying something like:

How much do you earn? [ ]

Send it

and now it sounds like that will be in effect how it works!

Why on Earth don't they just abolish PAYE entirely and increase tax on consumables, with a non-linear scale so poor people don't lose out disproportionately on necessities?

In any case, in a few years they will be able to tax every money transfer when electronic money cards are the only means to make these.

"Reforming" the PAYE system now would be like spending 100 billion converting the UK to driving on the right, when it will cost practically nothing in twenty or thirty years, or be totally unnecessary, because by then all vehicles on public highways will be robot-driven anyway. I bet the Lib Dems are behind this again, the imbeciles.

[Flashman]

It's just words to appease the LibDem "left-of-Labour" rump. He knows it is a sh*te, illiberal idea that could never be implemented.

Doesn't he?

But the sh*te, illiberal Liberals are now part of the Coalition.

Thanks to the expenses scandal we all know how crooked our MP's are. So who is Nick Clegg the independently wealthy son of multi-millionaire non domiciled Bankster, to lecture anyone?

One more public schoolboy on the Hate list for me.

“No man in this country is under the least obligation, moral or otherwise, so as to arrange his legal relations to his business or to his property as to enable the Inland Revenue to put the largest possible shovel into his store.”

Lord Clyde, quote from a judgment given in 1929

Theres a quote for you Cleggy boy!

[Sysman]

Yeah but just remember that in the past we also paid tithes.

My Uncle wrote a book about the "Lay Subsidies" of 1290 to 1332, that was a long time before the Napoleonic Wars. In his book he mentions that it was "Edward I" who introduced the tax to pay for his wars after he conquered the Welsh, to fund his campaign against the Scots and French.

Yep. Tithes (a tenth) to the church and taxes as well in one form or another. I could dig up a biblical reference to paying taxes to Caesar if I could be bothered.

From, the OED (Yank version)

tithe
noun
one tenth of annual produce or earnings, formerly taken as a tax for the support of the church and clergy.
• (in certain religious denominations) a tenth of an individual's income pledged to the church.
• [in sing. ] archaic a tenth of a specified thing : he hadn't said a tithe of the prayers he knew.
verb [ trans. ]
pay or give as a tithe : he tithes 10 percent of his income to the church.
• historical subject to a tax of one tenth of income or produce.

[Troll]

Soup kitchens, that's the answer.

You pay everything to HMRC & they give you soup in return.

That orange lentil soup.

Yum.

<Cue> The Soup Dragon sockie

[lilelvis2000]

So let's see...millions transferred to the HMRC bank account, It takes three days and the banks make a few million. The computers then crunch for a day and put £5 into everyone's accounts which takes three days and the banks make a few million. During which time many people will go over overdraft limits and pay the banks millions.

another win win win for the Banks and EDS I reckon.

I'll start using cash now.

[HairyArsedBloke]

I read the manifesto of the Raving Monster Loony Party a while back (purely for fun you understand...), and I had to admit that they had some jolly decent plans with regard to their future government. I recall it included something along ther lines of "no income tax - you keep everything because we think you will do a better job of spending it than we will".

Then we got Gordon Brown and the alternative loony party made it to Downing Street.

[thunderlizard]

Soup kitchens, that's the answer.

You pay everything to HMRC & they give you soup in return.

That would be great, except it's HMRC we're talking about. They would not give you any soup for 6 months, then come round with a paddling pool full of soup. "But that's too much soup!" you would say.
"No, we are committed to giving everybody The Right Amount Of Soup and this is The Right Amount Of Soup," they would say.
Then they'd be back a year later with the stomach pump to reclaim it.

[Clippy]

Best part of the article: Emma Boon, Campaign Manager.

[SupremeSpod]

Given that Income Tax was originally introduced to finance the Napoleonic Wars - isnt it Time to put and end to Income Tax and this Social Engineering ?

Now that would be a reallly interesting debate .

Yeah but just remember that in the past we also paid tithes.

My Uncle wrote a book about the "Lay Subsidies" of 1290 to 1332, that was a long time before the Napoleonic Wars. In his book he mentions that it was "Edward I" who introduced the tax to pay for his wars after he conquered the Welsh, to fund his campaign against the Scots and French.