Reply to: Germany, thinking about making it official!

[Sysman]

I've only been here around 21 years and have never learnt German properly although apparently I speak it pretty well and am often mistaken for one of the locals but I'm tulip at the grammer and can't write it to save my life.

I can write it but it takes a lot of time to check the genders against a dictionary. I've got to the stage where I can pick out mistakes in written German quite easily, which brings me onto the point I'm going to make.

Yesterday I was asked by a colleague to look at a CV written by an English person. . It was mainly in English but with bits of German where relevant (course titles etc) and the mistakes leapt off the page at me.

If you are going to splatter your CV with German, please get a native speaker to check it for you. (Also be aware that just as in the English speaking world, not everyone can spell and get the grammar right.)

Tend not to hang out with 'expats' as they most tend to be knobheads whinging about Germany and why isn't everything in English and, oh these people make me want to vomit, you only have to check out the Toytown website...

Yep, I tend to avoid expats as well. Did you ever come across the "Tennis, Bridge and Dinner Party" crowd? The ones I met seemed to spend all their time slagging off the locals and when not doing that gave you lectures on "not going native"

I've seen the behaviour you mention on various expat sites (and can say the same about another site owned by the folks who run Toytown... ).

There is some good technical info on those expat sites in the tax, legal and immigration/work permit sections, but the rest is best avoided.

[milanbenes]

Sas,

you are more than welcome to big city life

I'll take village life any day


Milan.

[sasguru]

...but gentleman, don't shout too loudly about the ease of transitioning to live
in the european mainland utopia, we don't want everybody coming do we


Milan.

Milan, we're talking about big city life in Germany, not the village life in some Eastern European tulip-hole that is your lot.

HTH

[BlasterBates]

I always found it strange that Brits found the shops closing at 5 pm in Germany a problem but pubs in the UK closing at 11 pm not! Anyway Germany and the UK have both moved on, the shops in Germany are open until 20:00 Pm and the big hypermarkets are now open until 22:00.

[milanbenes]

well well,

I have been advocating the benefits of living in germany for years,

and now, and the ney sayers are suddenly massive german-philes !


Milan.

[doodab]

The landlord calling my work and complaining that I cut the grass on a Sunday ... what's that all about?

They have rules about when you are allowed to make a noise. Drilling & hammering, cutting grass etc, even having the washing machine on if you are in a flat are all Verboten on a Sunday.

The beer gardens are open all day though

[Aman]

I enjoyed a better quality of life in Germany than I could at the same earnings here. Once stoppages had come off my pay and the rent and telephone was paid (warm) I knew where I was financially.
I didn't find the place I was living very friendly, in fact I found it quite lonely but I was in my early twenties, wanted to keep my work and social life separate. Frankfurt was a bit more welcoming, same as any large city.
My German wasn't very good, I had only taken a German evening class which wasn't grammar based.

Getting groceries was a bit of a mission, with supermarkets cosing at 5 pm weekdays and being closed all day on Sundays. Maybe I didn't find the right supemarkets.

The landlord calling my work and complaining that I cut the grass on a Sunday ... what's that all about?

[shaunbhoy]

I found that both speaking and understanding German, at least to a workable level, was not all that difficult. I very much doubt that it would have passed many formal exams, but that was hardly the point. The germans I encountered were always happy to meet you halfway, and were usually quite happy that you had gone to the bother of even attempting to learn the lingo, overlooking most rudimentary errors.
I really enjoyed my time there and would have no problem living there if the situation arose again. However, as it is unlikely to, I am more than happy to remain in Blighty for the time being.

[darmstadt]

I've only been here around 21 years and have never learnt German properly although apparently I speak it pretty well and am often mistaken for one of the locals but I'm tulip at the grammer and can't write it to save my life. Most shops in my town are open to 20:00 on Saturdays and some until midnight. Tend not to hang out with 'expats' as they most tend to be knobheads whinging about Germany and why isn't everything in English and, oh these people make me want to vomit, you only have to check out the Toytown website...

[Doggy Styles]

Maybe elsewhere in Germany but here in Berlin English is spoken everywhere... Although I'm learning the language because I feel is £$%@£ british

Few spoke English in Stuttgart, apart from the engineers, so I decided to learn German pretty quick. When I first went there I went to a (non-English speaking) doctor with a persistent headache and all he did was give me an extended eye test - and charged me the equivalent of £40 for it. I hadn't understood the 'augen' bit of 'augenarszt' on the door-sign!

Regarding the shops, they closed every Saturday at 1pm, but as a special treat they stayed open to 4pm once a month. What I couldn't believe was the post office closing for two hours every lunchtime.

[scooterscot]

I've met 2nd & 3rd generation Kiwi-scots who think like that.

Not to mention the countless Americans I've met "My great uncle so n so was Scottish you know"

I think I'm supposed to feel impressed but really I think why did my distant ancestors get off the boat, ah yes I remember, the rain won't fecking stop!!

[Moscow Mule]

Home will always be Scotty land it's like an umbilical cord that cannot be cut.

I've met 2nd & 3rd generation Kiwi-scots who think like that.

[scooterscot]

In a few words Scooter might be able to be even more scottish in Frankfurt than how he could be in Glasgow or Edinburgh and people will accept him as the "scotman" and not just another foreigner.

It's true. I'm known as the Scottish one in my office... and the supplier of hobnobs.

The availability of cheap flights makes easier and faster to go to Scotland from Germany than let's say traveling from many places in UK.

Next Friday I could return to Edinburgh for 67 Euros with ryanair don't care.

An internal flight in the UK on the same day with easyjet to Bristol say (a route I did often) £132 one way.

[Francko]

None of this applies to us whatsoever. This is Germany not the far east!

I'd have to agree with scooter on that. EU is getting closer everyday and, despite we will never be like the United States, cultural bareers are increasingly thinner.

I have recently seen an article from a german writer talking about many immigrants within EU from the unluckiest EU states to the richest ones (sorry I don't have it in English) and how they can strongly keep their cultural identities in a far easier way than it was 50 years ago. And most of all, they can manage to act more "native" abroad even more than in the countries they were born where is often difficult to express yourself because of several bareers and a generic flattening attitude of people feeling home. In a few words Scooter might be able to be even more scottish in Frankfurt than how he could be in Glasgow or Edinburgh and people will accept him as the "scotman" and not just another foreigner. The availability of cheap flights makes easier and faster to go to Scotland from Germany than let's say traveling from many places in UK.

[scooterscot]

Stages of Immigration [: Losses in Translation :]

Lets chart Scooters progress.

I'd guess Scooter is currently in Stage 1. 'The honeymoon phase'. Everything in Germany is brilliant!! Maybe his wife is already in stage 2 'rejection'.

Will they make it to stage 4? Stay tuned....

None of this applies to us whatsoever. This is Germany not the far east! Besides we're not talking about making Germany our home for ever and ever, no. What I am saying 2 - 4 years and a review after that. It reminds me of a chap asking me in my last permie job "so is this you until your 65" !! Scared the keck out of me I've been on the move ever since. It's not a way to live.

Home will always be Scotty land it's like an umbilical cord that cannot be cut.

Staying beyond 6 months here is awkward just from the tax perspective, just wish it was simple and straight forward. The only thing that puts us off are the doubts over the advice we may receive.

As for feeling alienated... there's a strong expat community here, which sure enough we meet up regularly, which also includes German flat mates and work colleagues. There not that much different from us, IMO, more attention to detail for sure it's engrained. Otherwise we meet up have a drink, usually hot beverage rather than alcohol.

You can live here as if you've never left home. It's not like being abroad at all, this being in Europe feels energising feels a lot more prosperous than the home I've been unable to get a job in for the last 5 years (i.e. Edinburgh). As long as the BBC news keeps pumping out the doom about cuts there's no desire to rush back either.