Reply to: FFS £95,000-a-year benefits family

[d000hg]

£95k tax free. Hmm I think I could survive with 10 kids.

Many families I know live with 2 -3 kids on less than a third of that before tax and they do things like travel to work and pay for council tax and dental work.

Extra kids don't cost that more, we have a constant kid population of about 6 -7 in our house for breakfast & lunch yet our food bill isn't that bad.

How do you cut it? Well you fix it by setting a maximum benefit to 80% of the modal wage after tax (to take into account travel expenses and benefits such as dental & council tax). If it goes above that you need special dispensation from central government/quango.

OK they won't be able to live in Chelsea but why do they need to?

Then you make anyone on the dole do some work. Plenty of things councils / government don't do that don't require expertise so get them doing that. Make it attendance & piece work driven.

Those with Mortgages you give them benefits to cover the mortgage but take a percentage of profit on sale. That way you recover the benefits later. Those on stupid interest rates due to previous poor credit history take over the mortgage if they default you get a cheap council house. This stops the lender selling it off cheap to their mates and the council having to house an evicted family.

Not bad. However while you maybe don't scale costs linearly with number of kids, some account should be taken based on what it actually costs... for instance to house 12 people you need a pretty big house, I think sometimes councils knock 2-3 terraced houses together which is a lot of rent.
If they already own a property I like your thoughts - I suppose the number of such cases is lowish but it should be remembered not everyone on benefits are 'career' claimers, some start from having jobs and it all turns to s***

[Mich the Tester]

I just had a look and there are tasks ranging form surveys, market research, testing website registration processes...

Surveys and market research require basic literacy and social skills. Testing website registration processes requires basic literacy and ability to use a computer. Believe it or not, these are skills which we take for granted, but many people among the underclass don't have those skills.

[shaunbhoy]

I don't like to see my taxes being spent on lazy people who don't want to go to work and sort themselves out either, but I really wonder whether there's a group of people who just can't keep up with the performance oriented economy that's dominating society, and whether there's much hope of getting them to work in an economically profitable sense of the word.

Don't think it has to be that profit-related. For example, give them their own "patch", and have them keep it litter-free, graffiti-free, and dog-muck free. Make the amount of benefit they can earn have a profit-related aspect too. Make them appreciate that whilst the rest of society is willing to help them out, they also have to reciprocate and show that they are prepared to put something back for the helping hand they are being shown.

[Jog On]

I just had a look and there are tasks ranging form surveys, market research, testing website registration processes...

The work is there. Some of it very unskilled and very low paid. If you forced Joe Pikey_dole_scum to spend 30 hours a week doing this stuff for minimum wage (benefits adjusted) how long do you think it would be before he decided that getting a proper job might actually be a better use of his time? Seeing as he's now working most of the day anyway....

[Mich the Tester]

Yes



Sleeping Policemen. They look like naturals.

OK, but it's a serious point; I don't like to see my taxes being spent on lazy people who don't want to go to work and sort themselves out either, but I really wonder whether there's a group of people who just can't keep up with the performance oriented economy that's dominating society, and whether there's much hope of getting them to work in an economically profitable sense of the word.

I don´t know what to do with them, but something tells me that the social security system is one way in which the middle and upper classes buy peace; so long as the underclass are fed and housed in their sink estates, they're not out beating up wealthy people or nicking our contractormobiles.

[shaunbhoy]

Would anyone here employ the subjects of this discussion?

Yes

If so, what would you have them doing?

Sleeping Policemen. They look like naturals.

[Mich the Tester]

Would anyone here employ the subjects of this discussion?

If so, what would you have them doing?

[shaunbhoy]

I think attendance and piece work driven is something they should implement for anyone on benefits. Perhaps they could set up cloud labour centres where benefit claimants can come in and work/train/get experience..

An excellent idea...............which will probably never be taken any further. Too much of an outcry from the handwringers I'd expect. And let's not forget the Human Rights of the "Jeremy Kyle" Generation.

[Jog On]

£95k tax free. Hmm I think I could survive with 10 kids.

Many families I know live with 2 -3 kids on less than a third of that before tax and they do things like travel to work and pay for council tax and dental work.

Extra kids don't cost that more, we have a constant kid population of about 6 -7 in our house for breakfast & lunch yet our food bill isn't that bad.

How do you cut it? Well you fix it by setting a maximum benefit to 80% of the modal wage after tax (to take into account travel expenses and benefits such as dental & council tax). If it goes above that you need special dispensation from central government/quango.

OK they won't be able to live in Chelsea but why do they need to?

Then you make anyone on the dole do some work. Plenty of things councils / government don't do that don't require expertise so get them doing that. Make it attendance & piece work driven.

Those with Mortgages you give them benefits to cover the mortgage but take a percentage of profit on sale. That way you recover the benefits later. Those on stupid interest rates due to previous poor credit history take over the mortgage if they default you get a cheap council house. This stops the lender selling it off cheap to their mates and the council having to house an evicted family.

I think attendance and piece work driven is something they should implement for anyone on benefits. Perhaps they could set up cloud labour centres where benefit claimants can come in and work/train/get experience..

Maybe that will get some of them actually looking for real work if their time is taken up working anyway

And families like this can work at home. With things like Amazon mechanical turk there's really no excuse for anyone to claim and do absolutely zilch - in a job centre or at home. ...

[vetran]

OK Troll feeding time.

£95k tax free. Hmm I think I could survive with 10 kids.

Many families I know live with 2 -3 kids on less than a third of that before tax and they do things like travel to work and pay for council tax and dental work.

Extra kids don't cost that more, we have a constant kid population of about 6 -7 in our house for breakfast & lunch yet our food bill isn't that bad.

How do you cut it? Well you fix it by setting a maximum benefit to 80% of the modal wage after tax (to take into account travel expenses and benefits such as dental & council tax). If it goes above that you need special dispensation from central government/quango.

OK they won't be able to live in Chelsea but why do they need to?

Then you make anyone on the dole do some work. Plenty of things councils / government don't do that don't require expertise so get them doing that. Make it attendance & piece work driven.

Those with Mortgages you give them benefits to cover the mortgage but take a percentage of profit on sale. That way you recover the benefits later. Those on stupid interest rates due to previous poor credit history take over the mortgage if they default you get a cheap council house. This stops the lender selling it off cheap to their mates and the council having to house an evicted family.

[MarillionFan]

Do you think getting paid to bring up 10 children is easier than a low-paid job? However OK as a deterrent I see your point - but it still doesn't help the people who already have the kids. Don't you think parents should bring up their own children?

In this case, other people should be bringing up their kids...

[d000hg]

It's not a question of spending more, it's making sure that those parents who get so many kids whilst having no work are guaranteed that they'll have to work and it won't have excuse of having to look after children: this can act as deterrent.

Do you think getting paid to bring up 10 children is easier than a low-paid job? However OK as a deterrent I see your point - but it still doesn't help the people who already have the kids. Don't you think parents should bring up their own children?

[MarillionFan]

AtW, I have asked this several times and you have never answered the question.

You admit that once you came to this country you never worked for years. How did you pay your way? Serious question.

Mini. You're a twat! Leave the fella alone.

AtW is ashamed of those days, he'd never done it with a women before, let a alone a man.... The donkey back in Russia had never told anyone, it was their secret. But alone & hungry, sleeping on the streets, curled up with a potato and a copy of Socialist worker it was only a matter of time. Only a matter of time before he had to sell his body, once turned to twice, twice to ten times!!!! Oh the shame, THE SHAME!

SKA was born from the red light hue of the cold streets of Birmingham. AtW has suffered for his work. Have you???

[minestrone]

It's not a question of spending more, it's making sure that those parents who get so many kids whilst having no work are guaranteed that they'll have to work and it won't have excuse of having to look after children: this can act as deterrent.

AtW, I have asked this several times and you have never answered the question.

You admit that once you came to this country you never worked for years. How did you pay your way? Serious question.

[AtW]

So you're going to spend more on social workers looking after the kids

It's not a question of spending more, it's making sure that those parents who get so many kids whilst having no work are guaranteed that they'll have to work and it won't have excuse of having to look after children: this can act as deterrent.