Reply to: Car Battery Hassle - Advice Sought

[lilelvis2000]

I'd replace a dead battery immediately. I just did that on my Nissan - where the battery just died all of a sudden. It was six years old mind you. In Canada, I always changed the battery after four years. You wouldn't want to be caught outside in -20C with a dead battery.

Can't see any reason you couldn't get replacement bolts from a breaker yard.

[DaveB]

It's a 14 year old Orion - I suspect drilling any holes will cause the wheels to fall off and the engine to fall out.

In which case there are probably suitable holes already available and the foam will add to it's structural integrity

[ctdctd]

Keep the portable unit in the passenger footwell and run the cables though into the engine bay and keep it hooked up to the battery.

Just drill a couple of holes in the bulkhead and whack a dollop of expanding foam in there afterwards to fill any gaps.

Simples!

It's a 14 year old Orion - I suspect drilling any holes will cause the wheels to fall off and the engine to fall out.

[DaveB]

Despite the extended battery life offered by not actually using the battery, I think the convenience of being able to start the car without lifting the bonnet has its attractions

Keep the portable unit in the passenger footwell and run the cables though into the engine bay and keep it hooked up to the battery.

Just drill a couple of holes in the bulkhead and whack a dollop of expanding foam in there afterwards to fill any gaps.

Simples!

[stek]

Have you tried turning it off and turning it on again?

[threaded]

where I park (mine's the blue one)

My god man, move out of the ghetto!

[NickFitz]

Option 1)
Wait for Admin to pay you and buy a new contractors car - Audi S3 or Mazda 6 MPS

I like my Orion

Option 2)
Drive the car for 30 mins - should charge enough to restart a warm engine

Duly noted

Option 3)
Always use the jump starter pack - my sister got an extra year out of a battery in her nappy wagon doing this and never blew up a petrol station.

Despite the extended battery life offered by not actually using the battery, I think the convenience of being able to start the car without lifting the bonnet has its attractions

Option 4) Ask someone from Mumsnet to give you a push.

FFS, they complain about having to push when they're giving birth

HTH

Certainly some points to take under advisement

[ctdctd]

Option 1)
Wait for Admin to pay you and buy a new contractors car - Audi S3 or Mazda 6 MPS

Option 2)
Drive the car for 30 mins - should charge enough to restart a warm engine

Option 3)
Always use the jump starter pack - my sister got an extra year out of a battery in her nappy wagon doing this and never blew up a petrol station.

Option 4) Ask someone from Mumsnet to give you a push.

HTH

[NickFitz]

Bit of a myth actually. If a spark could cause an explosion they'd be blowing up left right and centre.

I know, and the thingy includes protective circuitry to prevent sparking; but the people in the petrol station won't know that - they just obey orders from the "Petrol Station H&S" talk they got given on their first day. Friends of mine have worked in petrol stations, and they've told me that far from training them in what to do about potentially dodgy situations involving hazardous substances like petrol, their managers are for the most part obsessed with people nicking Crunchies

So I have these smart chargers, they're pricey, about £100 a shot, but you plug them onto the battery(s) (yes a few of my cars have 2 batteries) and just leave them plugged into the mains. If the battery needs charging they'll charge it, and otherwise give a good enough trickle without too much ripple that'd set your alarm off or screw up the other electrics.

The nearest mains electricity is probably twenty yards or so from where I park (mine's the blue one), and in somebody else's house; I'd need an extension lead a few hundred yards long to run my own power out there, and it'd probably get tangled up in somebody's washing

[NickFitz]

I would get the battery check from them but not the battery as I am sure you will be able to get it cheaper elsewhere.

I had a leaflet through the door the other week from Euro Car Parts and remember seeing batteries being advertised for £40 which I think is a good price.

Bet Halfords will charge at least £70.

Yep, Halfords are in that price range. However, with a long-term bit of hardware, one has to consider just how long-term it will be.

The current battery, purchased in December 2002 and Halfords-branded, has lasted for nearly seven-and-a-half years, which is (apparently) pretty good going. It may be that an equivalent battery in terms of specifications could have been - and could now be - obtained at less expense, and function just as well over as long a period.

However, given my lack of knowledge in this area, I am drawn to the fact that the pricier brand has stood me in good stead, whereas the cheaper brand is an unknown quantity.

It's like Corn Flakes or Digestive Biscuits: it may be the case that the branded products are made in the same factory as the unbranded or own-branded; but they are made to different standards, which is why they can be sold at different prices. One only has to try a supermarket own-brand Digestive alongside a McVities Digestive to realise that, sometimes, you do get what you pay for.

I don't know if such considerations apply to car batteries, but I do know that I use the motor-car-repair people I do (and with a twenty-one-year-old-car I use them pretty often) because they go out of their way to find proper Ford parts at a good price rather than just shoving pattern parts in there. Maybe I'm wasting my money if I go for a branded battery, but let's face it - if either battery lasts for seven years and the Halfords one costs £30 extra, I've wasted less than five quid a year. Not that much in the scheme of things, yet if the Unknown Quantity Manufacturing Corp battery proves to only last for five years, I've still only paid a couple of quid extra per year, for which I've gained an extra two years of avoiding the problem. Given that it costs (averaged out) about three hundred quid a year to keep the car going, fourteen quid extra over seven years isn't a major issue

N.B These figures, whilst based on reality, obviously don't bear any relationship to what may in fact happen and should not be taken as an indication of future performance.

Exercise for the reader: if a car with a 1.6 litre engine costs £250 to buy, and runs for nine years at an average cost of £300/year for maintenance and repairs, how much has the motorist saved compared to the cost of buying a new car of equivalent engine capacity (which would also have incurred costs for maintenance and repairs) from the start? Bonus marks will be given for demonstrating that the car's "Carbon Debt" is now, in fact, a "Carbon Credit" and the car should therefore be exempt from road tax

[threaded]

The other day I went out to the car to find that it wouldn't start: the battery had flattened in the few days since I'd last used it, having enough power to operate the central locking and light the lights very dimly, but nowhere near enough to turn over the starter motor.

I have a similar problem, what with cars that don't get run sometimes for weeks, having alarms and trackers that can flatten the (too small) batteries in days.

So I have these smart chargers, they're pricey, about £100 a shot, but you plug them onto the battery(s) (yes a few of my cars have 2 batteries) and just leave them plugged into the mains. If the battery needs charging they'll charge it, and otherwise give a good enough trickle without too much ripple that'd set your alarm off or screw up the other electrics.

[threaded]

The problem is that the car's also very low on fuel so I need to fill up, and I would imagine petrol stations aren't too keen on people jump-starting cars on the forecourt, what with the risk of sparks.

Bit of a myth actually. If a spark could cause an explosion they'd be blowing up left right and centre. The reason is interference with the video cameras: they don't like cigarettes 'cause they obscure the face, and mobile phones as they interfere with the recording, for example. And the reason they get upset about that, is people driving off without paying.

[NickFitz]

1) The alternator is not charging the battery properly
2) The battery is ****ed

On 2) A KwikFit garage should be able to perform a "Drop Test" which is where they bring out a device with two prongs (a bit like a really meaty geometry compass with a dial) and drop the two probes on the terminals. If the gauge winds down fast then the battery is at fault, the plates in the battery warp and touch each other rendering the cell useless. As a battery is a series of cells the one cell shorting out reduces the stamina of the battery which is diagnosed in the test. Obviously give the battery a full charge and drive a short distance to the testing station with no radio on, blowers or lights.

On 1) The alternator can suffer from worn brushes that can mean that poor electrical charge being received and not charging the battery sufficiently, you should be able to extract the alternator (disconnect the battery first - and make sure you know your radio code) and leave it 5 mins, then disconnect and unbolt the unit. A motor factors will give you a trade in on the old unit when you buy a new one, and this saves the hassle of having to rebrush.

HTH

Thanks SY. I know from others' experiences just how bad the local KwikFuk franchises can be, so I'm loath to take the car there. (The fact that I know people who've endured appalling incompetence there in the mid-Eighties, and others who have endured the same within the last year, fills me with a sense of dread - they may be good in other places, but not hereabouts.) I may choose Halfords for the same thing, as the local lot seem to be pretty sound. I think the battery is probably on its way out, given its age, but it's worth having it tested even though it'll almost certainly give up the ghost before too long anyway

I'm aware of the possible issue with the alternator, and this forms part of my test plan. If it transpires that the battery simply isn't being charged, then I have an old friend who lives a few streets away who can help me replace the alternator, although he imposes a strict requirement when he helps one: "I'll do it once for you, explaining what I'm doing and why. This means next time, you can do it yourself. If you can't, tough: you should have listened. I won't do it for you twice."

[suityou01]

I would get the battery check from them but not the battery as I am sure you will be able to get it cheaper elsewhere.

I had a leaflet through the door the other week from Euro Car Parts and remember seeing batteries being advertised for £40 which I think is a good price.

Bet Halfords will charge at least £70.

Nick, I have rebuilt quite a few cars from that genre and have owned many bangers in my time. In my circle of friends I am the go to guy for automotive shenanigans.

Listen, and listen good.

You have two options :

1) The alternator is not charging the battery properly
2) The battery is ****ed

On 2) A KwikFit garage should be able to perform a "Drop Test" which is where they bring out a device with two prongs (a bit like a really meaty geometry compass with a dial) and drop the two probes on the terminals. If the gauge winds down fast then the battery is at fault, the plates in the battery warp and touch each other rendering the cell useless. As a battery is a series of cells the one cell shorting out reduces the stamina of the battery which is diagnosed in the test. Obviously give the battery a full charge and drive a short distance to the testing station with no radio on, blowers or lights.

On 1) The alternator can suffer from worn brushes that can mean that poor electrical charge being received and not charging the battery sufficiently, you should be able to extract the alternator (disconnect the battery first - and make sure you know your radio code) and leave it 5 mins, then disconnect and unbolt the unit. A motor factors will give you a trade in on the old unit when you buy a new one, and this saves the hassle of having to rebrush.

HTH

[NickFitz]

Can we assume this is an old car/battery if the bolts have rusted? Old style batteries fail slowly. I can remember getting to the winter and having batteries gradually more and more reluctant to start the car. If an old car, the failure of cell may not be enough to not start the car but it will have trouble. You can check by checking what voltage it is producing. Each cell equates to x volts.

Modern batteries have a habit of dying suddenly. Twice now I have driven to somewhere and the car has failed to start after only minutes away. This catostrophic style of failure is now standard practice according to both the AA men who attended.

I used to find a 10 minute drive was enough to store up enough to restart the car the next day. When I had an volt meter in the car, doing anything over 20 used to result in enough to charge the battery. May have to be more for modern cars but then, conversely, things may be more efficient these days.

It's an old car and a lead-acid battery.

Thinking back to when the previous battery was dying, it would perk up after a quick drive across town, but would hold charge for shorter periods as time went on. OTOH the weather was getting colder, which didn't help.