Reply to: techmahindra taking the mickey

[Hart-floot]

It isn't just "low level" developers that the 5th columnist consultancies are bringing in from India, it's everybody - Business Analysts, Architects, Project Managers, testers, etc. Entire teams.

ICT abuse is rife in IBs, I can see pretty soon most IT departments in the City will be 70-80% Indian if not already.
The only tiny consolation is after a couple of years with a "consultancy" ("International" or Indian with a UK office) any IT bods who aren't complete morons will realise they are paid well under the UK market rate so will leave to become an independent contractor and increase their rate, then carry on for the holy grail of British citizenship.

Where are the UK IT grads? I can't see many coming through the ranks.
Cost cutting is only part of the problem, there are some genuine skills shortages mainly due to the larger IT companies with British presence (the big 5, etc.) concentrating on offshoring for the last decade and not bothering to train any British grads with the skills the city needs right now.

It's what Patricia Hewitt would have wanted

I thought the rules had changed and those people being bought into the UK via the ICT route can no longer re-apply for another work permit to contract here or apply for residency?

[ChimpMaster]

....
ICT abuse is rife in IBs, I can see pretty soon most IT departments in the City will be 70-80% Indian if not already..........

True, I see that too. Though in a lot of cases the work is offshored to binary speaking south of India.

Where are the UK IT grads?

Would you study IT in this day and age?

[expat]

I didn't realise that it had got that extreme having sheltered from the big smoke for a number of years now. I know the Russell Group university up the road had to cut some of its IT courses due to lack of numbers from UK students. It also explains the comments from agents about it being unusual to see UK born applicants for jobs.

Surely if the employer is looking for a client facing role they'll lean towards UK residents?

Doesn't look that way to me.

[The_Equalizer]

I didn't realise that it had got that extreme having sheltered from the big smoke for a number of years now. I know the Russell Group university up the road had to cut some of its IT courses due to lack of numbers from UK students. It also explains the comments from agents about it being unusual to see UK born applicants for jobs.

Surely if the employer is looking for a client facing role they'll lean towards UK residents?

[GreenerGrass]

It isn't just "low level" developers that the 5th columnist consultancies are bringing in from India, it's everybody - Business Analysts, Architects, Project Managers, testers, etc. Entire teams.

ICT abuse is rife in IBs, I can see pretty soon most IT departments in the City will be 70-80% Indian if not already.
The only tiny consolation is after a couple of years with a "consultancy" ("International" or Indian with a UK office) any IT bods who aren't complete morons will realise they are paid well under the UK market rate so will leave to become an independent contractor and increase their rate, then carry on for the holy grail of British citizenship.

Where are the UK IT grads? I can't see many coming through the ranks.
Cost cutting is only part of the problem, there are some genuine skills shortages mainly due to the larger IT companies with British presence (the big 5, etc.) concentrating on offshoring for the last decade and not bothering to train any British grads with the skills the city needs right now.

[expat]

Sounds like it's your loss, not the market's.

It depends on who wants what. It is not a "loss" to decide (as a buyer) how much you are prepared to pay, or decide (as a seller) how little you will accept being paid. It is only a loss for those who name the wrong price.

I'm just saying that, although contracting on a high rate might be my first choice for what to do with my life and work, if that is not on offer then contracting on a low rate is not necessarily my second choice.

[d000hg]

That's the demand curve.

And "the market" will get what it is willing to pay for, which might or might not include me, depending on the price. That's my contribution to the supply curve.

Sounds like it's your loss, not the market's.

[expat]

You'll get what the market is willing to pay for your services, no more, no less.

That's the demand curve.

And "the market" will get what it is willing to pay for, which might or might not include me, depending on the price. That's my contribution to the supply curve.

[Churchill]

I didn't get into contracting to earn "better than JSA". If I find that's all that's going then I think I'll get out of it again.

You'll get what the market is willing to pay for your services, no more, no less.

[expat]

just hazarding a guess here that the OP just wanted a bit of a rant. Can't blame him really.

1000/week is indeed better than JSA. Then again would this lower the market rate over all. Agent 1 says "I got someone for £200 pd" and the next contractor feels obliged to roll over.

I didn't get into contracting to earn "better than JSA". If I find that's all that's going then I think I'll get out of it again.

[d000hg]

I think it's hard to say any role is a "£500 day role", £500/day is a lot of money however you look at it for any techy role. And £500/day for the type of work that offshore teams can actually do is even higher... they mostly do development work rather than higher-level analyst/architect work don't they?

What was the role?

[d000hg]

And when your windows fall out, and it costs £8K to get the original company to remove and replace, you've only got yourself to blame. Simples.

Aren't most of the cowboy builders in the UK English, while the Polish ones know what a work ethic is?

[Churchill]

Never one to miss an opportinity.
When's your contract up Churchy?

Not until the end of July - although looks like we're going to extend.

[The_Equalizer]

Classic. It's hardly as if £200/day is the breadline. Take the rate, do the job and get another contract on a high rate asap. That, or sit on the bench on £0/day.

An old friend was a doctor and I remember being bemused by her friends who were moaning how badly paid they were. They lived in that back-arse of the UK too. Guess it's all relative.

[DodgyAgent]

There are a lot of benched contractors(of all nationalities) out there who would snatch their hands off.

If you're working, fine. If not, do the contract, take the money until something else crops up.

£1000 per week is better than JSA...

Never one to miss an opportinity.
When's your contract up Churchy?