Reply to: Global Warming

[doodab]

The Argentière Glacier and Mont Blanc Glacier have receded by 1,150 meters. That is impossible because that would mean that the glacier once covered the town of Les Chosale.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps

I think you may have failed to take trigonometry into account there. 1.2km on that google maps aerial view is about 1.68km down the side of the hill, because being a mountain it's on a bit of a slope.

[Paddy]

LOL! The World Glacier Monitoring Service is unequivocal, the overwhelming majority of glaciers are losing mass balance [=shrinking]. But for anyone who really want individual glaciers [and is allergic to Google] ...

As Europe was mentioned: Over the five-year period from 2000-2005, 115 of 115 glaciers examined in Switzerland retreated, 115 of 115 glaciers in Austria reatreated, in Italy during 2005 50 glaciers were retreating and 3 stationary , and all 7 glaciers observed in France were in retreat ... As an example, since 1870 the Argentière Glacier and Mont Blanc Glacier have receded by 1,150 m (3,770 ft) and 1,400 m (4,600 ft), respectively. The largest glacier in France, the Mer de Glace, which is 11 km (6.8 mi) long and 400 m (1,300 ft) thick, has lost 8.3% of its length, or 1 km (0.62 mi), in 130 years, and thinned by 27%, or 150 m.

...In examining 612 glaciers in China between 1950 and 1970, 53% of the glaciers studied were retreating. After 1990, 95% of these glaciers were measured to be retreating,

... Glaciers in the Mount Everest region of the Himalayas are all in a state of retreat. The Rongbuk Glacier, draining the north side of Mount Everest into Tibet, has been retreating 20 m (66 ft) per year

More examples than you could feasibly require here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retreat...ers_since_1850

The head of the IPCC had has to retract claims that half the glaciers in the Himalayas will have melted by 2035. this included Rongbuk Glacier that is actually getting thicker.

The Argentière Glacier and Mont Blanc Glacier have receded by 1,150 meters. That is impossible because that would mean that the glacier once covered the town of Les Chosale.



http://maps.google.co.uk/maps

[pjclarke]

Troll?

It still does not give details of any particular glaciers. It has names, but no details. For example the strongest wording for European Glaciers is:

Are you trolling? ... look here http://www.grid.unep.ch/glaciers/pdfs/6_5.pdf

Down the LH side ... a list of named Eurpoean glaciers with a graph showing the trend. Other chapters show the same information for other regions.

[Paddy]

The report at http://www.grid.unep.ch/glaciers/ has lists of glaciers, by name.

It still does not give details of any particular glaciers. It has names, but no details. For example the strongest wording for European Glaciers is:

Variations show a general trend of glacier retreat over the past 150 years. How scientific is that?

[pjclarke]

Please give specific examples or accurate location. It’s no good just saying for example, glaciers in Europe. I want the name or location of particular glaciers or at least one.

LOL! The World Glacier Monitoring Service is unequivocal, the overwhelming majority of glaciers are losing mass balance [=shrinking]. But for anyone who really want individual glaciers [and is allergic to Google] ...

As Europe was mentioned: Over the five-year period from 2000-2005, 115 of 115 glaciers examined in Switzerland retreated, 115 of 115 glaciers in Austria reatreated, in Italy during 2005 50 glaciers were retreating and 3 stationary , and all 7 glaciers observed in France were in retreat ... As an example, since 1870 the Argentière Glacier and Mont Blanc Glacier have receded by 1,150 m (3,770 ft) and 1,400 m (4,600 ft), respectively. The largest glacier in France, the Mer de Glace, which is 11 km (6.8 mi) long and 400 m (1,300 ft) thick, has lost 8.3% of its length, or 1 km (0.62 mi), in 130 years, and thinned by 27%, or 150 m.

...In examining 612 glaciers in China between 1950 and 1970, 53% of the glaciers studied were retreating. After 1990, 95% of these glaciers were measured to be retreating,

... Glaciers in the Mount Everest region of the Himalayas are all in a state of retreat. The Rongbuk Glacier, draining the north side of Mount Everest into Tibet, has been retreating 20 m (66 ft) per year

More examples than you could feasibly require here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retreat...ers_since_1850

[Paddy]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8571353.stm



Two government press adverts which used nursery rhymes to raise awareness of climate change have been banned by the Advertising Standards Authority (ASA).

It said the advertisements went beyond mainstream scientific consensus in asserting that climate change would cause flooding and drought.

[BlasterBates]

List of melting glaciers can be found here:


http://www.appinsys.com/GlobalWarmin...E_Glaciers.htm

Does contain a longer history to give a wider perspective, i.e. a removal of some of the theological aspects to the melting glaciers debate.

[doodab]

Your answers were not what I was asking. Your info is too general.

Please give specific examples or accurate location. It’s no good just saying for example, glaciers in Europe. I want the name or location of particular glaciers or at least one.

The report at http://www.grid.unep.ch/glaciers/ has lists of glaciers, by name.

[BlasterBates]

papers always begin unreviewed. Roy Spencer is using his blog entry to get it reviewed. He has announced that he and John Christy will be submitting a paper.

...and in any case such reports are valid and citable, when from a reputable source, which you ought to know if you were familiar with the scientific process. They're still part of the scientific debate.

But then most Warmists conduct a thoelogical debate:

international committees of Nobel laureates passing down opinions on tablets of stone.

[pjclarke]

however as Roy Spencer points out ... Warming in the US since 1973 may have been spurious

Which means it may not. The US is about 2% of the globe, btw. And, if we are relying on unreviewed blogs, I give you ... WotsUpWithThat

[Paddy]

Choose NASA or the US NOAA . There are others.



Here is a summary from the World Glacier Monitoring Service. The red bars are retreating glaciers, blue advancing.

The vast majority are melting, if you really want the name of an individual glacier, pick one of the thirty 'reference' glaciers listed here



This study, A globally coherent fingerprint of climate change impacts across natural systems published in Nature, does what it says on the tin. The researchers looked at changes in 1700 species and found 84% showing behavioural changes, mainly range-shifts polewards, consistent with climate change.

Do the vast majority of scientists agree with the IPCC? Yes.

Do all but a handful of studies underpin AGW? Yes.

Since when have Governments needed excuses to tax people? Belief in a global tax-raising conspiracy, encompassing every professional body of scientists in the world, to manufacture a global phenomenon (what - massive submerged immersion heaters in the Arctic?) indicates a rather loose relationship with reality.

Your answers were not what I was asking. Your info is too general.

Please give specific examples or accurate location. It’s no good just saying for example, glaciers in Europe. I want the name or location of particular glaciers or at least one.

[BlasterBates]

That research may be a few years old (but then Newton's laws are even older, and still apply)

however as Roy Spencer points out

Warming in the US since 1973 may have been spurious

http://www.drroyspencer.com/

which kind of supports the above

i.e. warming just local

[pjclarke]

Is it significantly warmer now than at the start of the last century? Yes.Please give one example.

Choose NASA or the US NOAA . There are others.

Are most glaciers retreating? Yes.
Please give one example. Name one clacier.

Here is a summary from the World Glacier Monitoring Service. The red bars are retreating glaciers, blue advancing.

The vast majority are melting, if you really want the name of an individual glacier, pick one of the thirty 'reference' glaciers listed here

Are species shifting polewards? Yes.
Please give one example.

This study, A globally coherent fingerprint of climate change impacts across natural systems published in Nature, does what it says on the tin. The researchers looked at changes in 1700 species and found 84% showing behavioural changes, mainly range-shifts polewards, consistent with climate change.

Do the vast majority of scientists agree with the IPCC? Yes.

Do all but a handful of studies underpin AGW? Yes.

Since when have Governments needed excuses to tax people? Belief in a global tax-raising conspiracy, encompassing every professional body of scientists in the world, to manufacture a global phenomenon (what - massive submerged immersion heaters in the Arctic?) indicates a rather loose relationship with reality.

[Paddy]

Ah - by rekindle the debate you mean 'lift a single sentence from a 7 year old email, and present it as evidence of'

What exactly?

The author almost certainly meant 'statistical' significance, meaning that the overall global average rose (and continues to rise), and that rise achieved the usual 95% confidence level for statistical significance in 20% of grid cells.

So what? Did the global mean temperature rise? Yes. Is it significantly warmer now than at the start of the last century? Yes. Are most glaciers retreating? Yes. Are species shifting polewards? Yes. Do the vast majority of scientists agree with the IPCC? Yes. Do all but a handful of studies underpin AGW? Yes. Do the combined National Academies think the evidence demands action? Yes.

In the light of all this we have one sentence from a private email? Per-leeze - some might conclude a lack of anything more pursuasive.

Perhaps we could debate this ?

Is it significantly warmer now than at the start of the last century? Yes.
Please give one example.
Are most glaciers retreating? Yes.
Please give one example. Name one clacier.
Are species shifting polewards? Yes.
Please give one example.
Do the vast majority of scientists agree with the IPCC? Yes.
No
Do all but a handful of studies underpin AGW? Yes.
No Do the combined National Academies think the evidence demands action? Yes. Excuse for taxation.

[Doggy Styles]

Since before the Great Flood?

Is he suggesting that Noah's Ark factory was the start of man-made global warming?