UK expats lose pension freeze appeal

[EternalOptimist]

we live in uncertain times

[tay]

I have moved to a Commonwealth country (New Zealand) and so I have looked into this but I won't be affected.

Entitlement to the New Zealand state pension is based on residence (the "Citizens Pension" idea that has been floated by some in the UK) and provided that I have lived here for ten years then I will get it.

I will be obliged to claim anything I am due from the UK government and this will reduce the amount paid by the New Zealand government accordingly. Some British expats complain about this arrangement but I think it is fair enough because the total state pension works out the same as any other NZ resident. Private pension arrangements are excluded from this calculation.


What is more worrying is the serious crunch that you will have to deal with in the UK before very much longer. The story highlights the sense of entitlement that people that have paid NI contributions all their life feel (understandably) but the government has been using that money to finance the pensions of the people that have already retired.

With people living ever longer this is unsustainable but no politician wants to deal with it because they'll get no thanks for it.

Over the past few years the New Zealand government has been squirrelling away surplus funds to provide for a projected increase in retirees in the future. The current government has stopped contributions because of reduced tax income during the recession they don't believe it is wise to borrow for this purpose. They are right but I am not convinced that they would restart contributions when the economy picks up.

Yeah i saw some UK expats complaining abut this on the news just the other week. But I am with you, there is no way they should get a full UK govt and a full NZ govt pension.

[BoredBloke]

But this highlights how this government works. Pick a small group that you think nobody will give a stuff about and squeeze them. This has to be a new low though. To prevent somebody getting the increased state pension that they paid for all their working life is bad - especially when we have so many scroungers with no interest in working milking the system for every penny they can get - eg Rochdale Swap Donkey!

[Gonzo]

More than half a million UK pensioners living overseas will continue to have their pensions frozen after a European court decision.

Pensioners who moved to countries such as Australia and Canada only receive the level of pension paid at retirement - which might be only £6 per week.

The European Court of Human Rights rejected an appeal from a group of pensioners by an 11 to 6 majority.

The group wanted to receive increases in line with inflation.

The decision has saved the government at least £500m a year.

The expatriate pensioners say they have been fighting "tooth and nail" against the UK government in an eight-year court battle.

Pensioners who have moved abroad want their UK state pensions to rise in line with inflation each year.

Inflation-proofing only applies to UK pensioners who live in the European Economic Area or in 15 other countries, but not in some Commonwealth states.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8568970.stm

Anybody here affected ?

I have moved to a Commonwealth country (New Zealand) and so I have looked into this but I won't be affected.

Entitlement to the New Zealand state pension is based on residence (the "Citizens Pension" idea that has been floated by some in the UK) and provided that I have lived here for ten years then I will get it.

I will be obliged to claim anything I am due from the UK government and this will reduce the amount paid by the New Zealand government accordingly. Some British expats complain about this arrangement but I think it is fair enough because the total state pension works out the same as any other NZ resident. Private pension arrangements are excluded from this calculation.


What is more worrying is the serious crunch that you will have to deal with in the UK before very much longer. The story highlights the sense of entitlement that people that have paid NI contributions all their life feel (understandably) but the government has been using that money to finance the pensions of the people that have already retired.

With people living ever longer this is unsustainable but no politician wants to deal with it because they'll get no thanks for it.

Over the past few years the New Zealand government has been squirrelling away surplus funds to provide for a projected increase in retirees in the future. The current government has stopped contributions because of reduced tax income during the recession they don't believe it is wise to borrow for this purpose. They are right but I am not convinced that they would restart contributions when the economy picks up.

[Mich the Tester]

Where are you heading to on retirement, Mich?

If you are still within the EU, the UK state pension would rise with inflation, I believe.

No idea. I don’t see why I should have to plan that now. I pay into the Dutch schemes and my private scheme and I expect to be paid out from them. Actually, every time I see these changes to national pension or benefits schemes it makes me glad I’m a contractor and effectively outside these schemes; they’re an even bigger rip off than the banks.

[TheFaQQer]

Well, I will be, but happily I’ve invested in the Dutch healthcare pension scheme; just have to stick together with Lady Tester to get the best pension in the world.

I can understand that I won’t get much because I haven’t paid much in to the British system, but if people have paid into the system for a set number of years, they should have the same rights to a pension as anyone else who’s paid in. If that’s not the case, HMG are committing theft. Not that that would be news.

Where are you heading to on retirement, Mich?

If you are still within the EU, the UK state pension would rise with inflation, I believe.

[NotAllThere]

Not necessarily unreasonable I reckon. Pensions paid to British residents are mostly spent in the UK and benefit our economy. When paid to expats there is an impact on GDP and balance of trade.

For the same reason a job done by a migrant worker is often worth less to the UK than a similar job done by a Brit.

OTOH, health care costs are being picked up by the host country.

The same proposal was put before the Swiss populace who rejected it resoundly. Apparently, they all want to retire to Thailand. Well, the men anyway.

[Mich the Tester]

Not unreasonable I reckon. Pensions paid to British residents are mostly spent in the UK and benefit our economy. When paid to expats there is an impact on GDP and balance of trade.

For the same reason a job done by a migrant worker is often worth less to the UK than a similar job done by a Brit.

Wrong. People pay compulsory NI contributions into the scheme and are promised a pension at the end. If you want to deny people benefits based on where they live then NI contributions should not be compulsory for anyone working in the UK.

[xoggoth]

Not necessarily unreasonable I reckon. Pensions paid to British residents are mostly spent in the UK and benefit our economy. When paid to expats there is an impact on GDP and balance of trade.

For the same reason a job done by a migrant worker is often worth less to the UK than a similar job done by a Brit.

PS Although whether the pension reduction is proportionate to the impact on us I do not know.

[Mich the Tester]

I should add that New Labour disenfranchised all expats who’d been out of the UK for more than 15 years (previously 20 years), and wanted to bring this down to 5 years. Of course it perhaps isn’t entirely coincidental that many expats are tories. So now Gordon has decided to pick on British citizens who often don’t even have the means to fight back at the ballot box. Not only is he a liar, a thief, a colluder in torture and a snot goblin, he’s also a bully.

[fullyautomatix]

When the money runs out the government will try and find ways of not keeping its promise. I believe the gold plated pensions for civil servants cost the tax payer about £25 Billion last year. This is totally unfunded. All the governments in place are ignoring this and are trying to fund this by either borrowing the cash or just using the cash that is earmarked for public services.

[Mich the Tester]

Why should it matter where you live when you retire? Surely this is simply the state stealing your money and giving it to chavs and MPs?

ftfy

[shaunbhoy]

Why should it matter where you live when you retire? Surely this is simply the state paying you back all the contributions you made during your working life?

[Mich the Tester]

Well, I will be, but happily I’ve invested in the Dutch healthcare pension scheme; just have to stick together with Lady Tester to get the best pension in the world.

I can understand that I won’t get much because I haven’t paid much in to the British system, but if people have paid into the system for a set number of years, they should have the same rights to a pension as anyone else who’s paid in. If that’s not the case, HMG are committing theft. Not that that would be news.

[fullyautomatix]

More than half a million UK pensioners living overseas will continue to have their pensions frozen after a European court decision.

Pensioners who moved to countries such as Australia and Canada only receive the level of pension paid at retirement - which might be only £6 per week.

The European Court of Human Rights rejected an appeal from a group of pensioners by an 11 to 6 majority.

The group wanted to receive increases in line with inflation.

The decision has saved the government at least £500m a year.

The expatriate pensioners say they have been fighting "tooth and nail" against the UK government in an eight-year court battle.

Pensioners who have moved abroad want their UK state pensions to rise in line with inflation each year.

Inflation-proofing only applies to UK pensioners who live in the European Economic Area or in 15 other countries, but not in some Commonwealth states.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8568970.stm

Anybody here affected ?