Reply to: Margaret Thatcher's toxic legacy

[Addanc]

... but destroying industry in order to destroying unions certainly was.

Breaking news manufacturing has declined faster under Billy Liar/Brown than it did under the Thatcher/Major.

[Gonzo]

Er.

The Old Liebour had two terms.

There were two elections in 1974.

Then North Sea Oil came on stream & Maggie gave all the money to her friends in the City.

Oops. My bad.

Labour did indeed serve two terms but the first one was roughly nine months long so there wasn't a long period of Labour government, which was the point that I wanted to make.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

Isn't ironic that the public sector is always more militant under "friendly" governments - defies that "they all vote Labour" man in the pub logic doesn't it?

[Gonzo]

You're obviosly not old enough. But if Labour get back in, and we return to having our rubbish pilling up in the streets as we always do under long Labour terms, then you'll be hopeful that there's another maggie around the corner...

That is not strictly true.

Rubbish piling up in the streets, the dead not being buried etc, was the public sector workers reacting to the cuts that were imposed on the one-term Labour government in the late-seventies after it had to borrow from the IMF.

That is not to say that you will not get more of the same when the necessary cuts are made by whichever party wins the next election, Labour or Conservative.

[AtW]

In the nineteen seventies the tax payer was supporting all number of "British Industries" and it was economic suicide for the country.

You mean it was worse than it is now?

Economic suicide is when country produces **** *** and lacks climate of countries that can encourage mass tourism. Even British education is now under serious attack - even 10 years ago when I used to study in an ex-Poly there was in my view way too high reliable on foreign students, ffs - I was not pleased to see that 90% of students in our Masters class were foreign and did not speak English well, how the **** one can learn good English when most of students are foreigners?

I guess you might say that British education was **** and educating British students was a total waste of money, after all after all industries got ****** there was no point to teach anyone anything but media studies right?

Look at Germany, who runs BMW - a bean counter or a proper Engineer PhD?

The City's operations would have been sufficient for a country with population of 5 mln max - ideally located offshore, but it can't sustain 60 mln people livin gin this country - never could, never will.

[Gonzo]

If you pay taxpayer money to internal companies then big chunk of that money goes back to the treasury

Not all of it does and the tax payer ends up down on the deal.

In the nineteen seventies the tax payer was supporting all number of "British Industries" and it was economic suicide for the country.

Businesses evolve over time and some no longer have a place and have to die. At what point does the government decide to pull the plug on the production for steamships, for example? I suppose that if you buy into the whole "planned economy" approach then it is manageable, but I don't.

The nineteen eighties were a very painful transition for many and their communities in the UK. It was not so obvious for a middle-class southerner like me but having a look around somewhere like Beamish in the north-east (it is a reconstruction of an industrial settlement) brings home how these communities have been devastated.

In the olden days a young man with no qualifications could get a well-paid manual job in industry and earn enough money to support a family. That all changed in the eighties and to this day many of those industrial communities have not recovered.

I do think that the changes were needed but they were painful. She might have resigned nearly twenty years ago but any mention of that woman's name still stirs up deep emotions.

Another example. TV's used to be made in the UK. They were expensive. We didn't get a colour TV set in our house until about 1980. Now they are made in the far east and they are cheap which makes them available to everyone. Why would you want to reverse that?

[AtW]

nope the problem was the huge money pit coal mining was to the taxpayer.

If you pay taxpayer money to internal companies then big chunk of that money goes back to the treasury, however when this money is paid to external companies then it goes away - does not support jobs, so taxpayers have to chip in etc etc.

If you look objectively at money flows then you'll find that taxpayer is better off paying extra so long as money actually remain inside the system to keep the flows, rather than flow outside.

[vetran]

nope the problem was the huge money pit coal mining was to the taxpayer.

[AtW]

Coal mining was dragging us down as were other traditional industries.

Oh yes, that dirty coal mining, terrible innint... much better buy expensive gas from Gazprom, right?

[AtW]

You're the one who searched 1 trillion web-pages. Look through your data...

1.5 trillion now - still can't find those industries

[vetran]

Watch "the strike" actually reminded me of those days. The closed shop attitude the sense of entitlement etc.

Coal mining was dragging us down as were other traditional industries. Something needed to be done.

The industries could make money but didn't because of poor management and staff relations. That's gone thanks to Maggie and co. The GPO slimmed down and became BT, Gas board became british gas, Corus emerged pheonix like from British steel.

[d000hg]

Give me example of these industries.

You're the one who searched 1 trillion web-pages. Look through your data...

[Mich the Tester]

[QUOTE=Gibbon;1086197]

the aero engine industry (Rolls Royce) is very strong, with a reputation for the very best quality QUOTE]

You're far to kind, thanks

Well alright, less tulip than the septics

[Gibbon]

[QUOTE=Mich the Tester;1086190] the aero engine industry (Rolls Royce) is very strong, with a reputation for the very best quality QUOTE]

You're far to kind, thanks

[AtW]

Yes, so it was good to let Rover go.

I don't share this view.

This Rover problem wasn't entirely Nu Liebor fault - if Thatcher was so ******* good she'd create conditions that would have enabled British industry to emerge 10-15 years later as winners. She did **** all to help and sure did a lot to make sure it never happens, bigger margins in the financial services eh?

In 1979, British Leyland (or as it was now officially known, BL Ltd.) began a long relationship with the Honda Motor Company of Japan. The result was a cross-holding structure, where Honda took a 20% stake in the company while the company took a 20% stake in Honda's UK subsidiary. The deal was thought to be mutually beneficial: Honda used its British operations as a launchpad into Europe, and the company could pool resources with Honda in developing new cars.

Whose watch was that under, Mrs Thatchers? Why didn't they sell 51% to Honda or bloody 100% if necessary on a condition R&D and assembly happens in the UK. The fact that only small shareholding was sold created a timebomb that exploded under Major's Govt.