Reply to: What is the different in ideology between the big 3 parties

[Peoplesoft bloke]

Originally Posted by Doggy Styles
This thread is about ideology, not policy. The concepts are different.
Nevertheless, it's a point that went right over your head, not that you'd admit it.

I see; (or according to you, I don't) what a shame you are so unpleasant.

[Doggy Styles]

Originally Posted by Doggy Styles
This thread is about ideology, not policy. The concepts are different.

No tulip Sherlock.

Nevertheless, it's a point that went right over your head, not that you'd admit it.

[DodgyAgent]

Can't argue with you on that, the country needs a change. I suspect where we would part company is that I felt the same in 1997, wheras you and a majority on here would perhaps prefer a one-party Tory state.

Oh dear

[Peoplesoft bloke]

Then you vote on issues of trust and competence, in other words anything to get rid of labour.

Can't argue with you on that, the country needs a change. I suspect where we would part company is that I felt the same in 1997, wheras you and a majority on here would perhaps prefer a one-party Tory state.

[DodgyAgent]

So I think we are in agreement. There is no point in voting on the basis of idealogy because the parties ignore it and persue political expediency. This leads to the ludicrous situation where both parties have both supported and opposed ID cards (just to take one example) as it suited them.

Then you vote on issues of trust and competence, in other words anything to get rid of labour.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

The ideologies are clearly different. How they are expressed in terms of activities and policies is where the confusion lies. For example Tories would naturally believe in there not being a necessity to have a health service, yet politically they know that to not support the NHS would be a disaster. Likewise labour hate business yet they know that without it they would have no money to "share".
Ultimately they cannot completely describe their true colurs such as Tory attitudes to inheritance tax (abolish it) and labour not being able to help itself from taxing for example freelancers out of business. freelancers to labour are the anti christ, yet to the Tories they are the embodiment of Conservatism. And because freelance IT people are such a minority neither party will moderate its ideologies for or against them.

So I think we are in agreement. There is no point in voting on the basis of idealogy because the parties ignore it and persue political expediency. This leads to the ludicrous situation where both parties have both supported and opposed ID cards (just to take one example) as it suited them.

[DodgyAgent]

No there are not. On every major issue they have each turned about and stolen each other's policies repeatedly. Only those mired in blind dogma can't see that.

The ideologies are clearly different. How they are expressed in terms of activities and policies is where the confusion lies. For example Tories would naturally believe in there not being a necessity to have a health service, yet politically they know that to not support the NHS would be a disaster. Likewise labour hate business yet they know that without it they would have no money to "share".
Ultimately neither party can completely disguise its true colurs. For example as seen in Tory attitudes to inheritance tax (abolish it) and labour not being able to help itself from taxing for example freelancers out of business. freelancers to labour are the anti christ, yet to the Tories they are the embodiment of Conservatism. And because freelance IT people are such a minority neither party will moderate its ideologies in their dealings with them.

[Moscow Mule]

No tulip Sherlock.

What good is idealogy if you abandon it in favour of political gain whenever it suits you?

Good? Not much.

Handy for us public to identify charlatans though...

[Peoplesoft bloke]

This thread is about ideology, not policy. The concepts are different.

No tulip Sherlock.

What good is idealogy if you abandon it in favour of political gain whenever it suits you?

[Doggy Styles]

No there are not. On every major issue they have each turned about and stolen each other's policies repeatedly. Only those mired in blind dogma can't see that.

This thread is about ideology, not policy. The concepts are different.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

There are clear fundamental differences between the two.

No there are not. On every major issue they have each turned about and stolen each other's policies repeatedly. Only those mired in blind dogma can't see that.

[Moscow Mule]

Anything but Gord needs a diagonal red line through it.

That means its a mandatory direction shown in the circle. The cross through it means a mandatory prohibition.

I thought about it, but it's not really true and it ruins the graphic of gord.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/dr_consum_d.../dg_070642.pdf

[vetran]

Anything but Gord needs a diagonal red line through it.

That means its a mandatory direction shown in the circle. The cross through it means a mandatory prohibition.

[DodgyAgent]

Totally agree, and as I have argued on here before, their "idealogy" is often founded on spin. Thatcher's "small state" included quangos, tax rises and a load of massive new databases and admin for the poll tax. I am not saying she was wrong - but the facts don't fit the revisionist view. Similarly, the rise in inequality during a supposedly socialist government demonstrates they are nothing of the sort.

What is wrong with "inequality"? in fact what IS inequality? I think you will find that those people who are "less equal" than others have been educated, employed and looked after by socialist institutions.

[DodgyAgent]

There are clear fundamental differences between the two.

The Tories believe in personal responsibility and freedom. The Tories also understand concepts such as choice, markets. They are also proud of being british.

Labour or New Labour believe in collectivism. They believe in the concept of sharing and equality.

The two ideologies have been branded (incorrectly) as being (in the case of Tory ideology) selfish with Labour ideology being branded as morally right. Of course I (as you all know) argue that the reverse is true.