Reply to: Non technical people in the IT world

[minestrone]

Sorry if you were choosing a PM to work for you would prefer to pull the wool over their eyes and have the project suffer the consequences later?

Who said the project would suffer?

A project will run much better shielded from a halfwit PM who still struggles setting his betamax to record.

[NeverBeenNorthOfTheM25]

My biggest bugbear when it comes to PM's is when they promise their boss the world then expect you to work late to deliver it ...... and do you think you'll get any of the accolades when the product is delivered on time? Nope, just that the PM will look good.

In my view the PM should act as a buffer between the 'techies' and upper management. Instead a lot Ive seen just let the crap come straight through from the top without even a hint of anyone running interference to try and help stem the flow.

[MPwannadecentincome]

If I was choosing a PM to run a project I would make sure he came from a relevant technical background.

If I was choosing a PM to work for I would make sure he knew nothing about the technical nature of my job.

I could tell my current PM the code fairies came last night and deleted all yesterday's work so I would have to do it again and he would just say OK.

Sorry if you were choosing a PM to work for you would prefer to pull the wool over their eyes and have the project suffer the consequences later?

However, techies beware....

I'm not the only PM with a technical background, in my case a lot of coding moving on to sysadmin for five linked data centres, with a CV containing 13 operating systems and at least 10 languages, plus a solid working knowledge of modern networks.

However I'm not there to be a technician, I'm there to get the work out. That doesn't mean I've forgotten everything I ever leared, but it also means I have a very good radar for when the techie is being economical with the truth or taking the easy option. Just because I don't parade my technical knowledge, doesn't mean I haven't got it.

Techying and Managering are different and equally important skills sets. If a business is to succeed it needs both.

as it should be, the techies should not be able to pull the wool over your eyes!

[Moscow Mule]

That is the thing, the non technical ones don't know what is not possible and what is a ridiculous demand. Half of them are too eager to commit to work to make themselves look good without taking the time to get a proper estimate done.

Fortunately, I haven't experienced this in a while. I did have one PM who did estimating - that was a complete cluster**** in the end and she got fired.

[swamp]

There are all sorts of hanger onners these days.

Business Analysts -- many good ones but plenty of useless ones too
Project Managers -- as discussed
Program Managers -- good at politics but crap at everything else
Technical Architects/Analysts -- usually a waste of space
Architect -- always a waste of space
QA -- plenty of good ones but many many useless ones
Sys Admins -- anally retentive know-it-alls (who usually don't)
DBAs -- tape changers
Graphic Designers -- gay
Scrum Master -- double gay

[minestrone]

To me, a good project manager should:

Not agree to the impossible, or even the unlikely.
Be prepared to kick back against ridiculous demands from senior management when necessary
Have enough technical awareness to understand (at a high level) the developers' concerns.
Protect the developers from undeserved flak.
Listen to the technical people.
Buy Jaffa cakes.

Oh - and get the project delivered!

That is the thing, the non technical ones don't know what is not possible and what is a ridiculous demand. Half of them are too eager to commit to work to make themselves look good without taking the time to get a proper estimate done.

[Moscow Mule]

Buy Jaffa cakes.

Fox's Golden Crunch Creams - you could not imagine a finer biscuit .

[mudskipper]

To me, a good project manager should:

Not agree to the impossible, or even the unlikely.
Be prepared to kick back against ridiculous demands from senior management when necessary
Have enough technical awareness to understand (at a high level) the developers' concerns.
Protect the developers from undeserved flak.
Listen to the technical people.
Buy Jaffa cakes.

Oh - and get the project delivered!

[malvolio]

However, techies beware....

I'm not the only PM with a technical background, in my case a lot of coding moving on to sysadmin for five linked data centres, with a CV containing 13 operating systems and at least 10 languages, plus a solid working knowledge of modern networks.

However I'm not there to be a technician, I'm there to get the work out. That doesn't mean I've forgotten everything I ever leared, but it also means I have a very good radar for when the techie is being economical with the truth or taking the easy option. Just because I don't parade my technical knowledge, doesn't mean I haven't got it.

Techying and Managering are different and equally important skills sets. If a business is to succeed it needs both.

[badger7579]

I'm taking the view from the other side. I'm a PM with a technical background and mostly work on technical projects. I don’t claim to be a techie genius (never have been) but it makes all the difference when I'm talking to my team on technical matters.

The client has some top notch techies (mix of contractors and permies) assigned to my project and they are superb. This benefits me because I have the confidence in them to do the job (don’t have to chase them all the time) and I respect their views on all technical matters and tend to default their recommendations and giving them the slack to make decisions on their own if needed.

I see my role with them as an organiser/facilitator and planner allowing them to do their job as efficiently as possible without the management of the project holding them up. They deliver on time then so do I.. A reward and recommendation for good work and hitting the deadline also goes a long way.

[cojak]

Can any help me out on how to get a definition of 'works' to our techy teams?

<red cape, knickers over tights>

Did somebody call?

</red cape, knickers over tights>

PS - I do the same with Senior Management too, but the day rate is more..

[threaded]

Sums it up, doesn't it? "The techies".

Actually I find this artificial delineation in job functions is what causes nearly all management problems. Yet one should remember that it is the management that insist on having people specialised in one narrow area to the point where they are unable to even give a best guess about where the problem lays.

Exampe: I'm seeing adverts for T-SQL, it's like WTF: requirements for contractors specialised in writing IF statements?

[original PM]

Good Hardware Team:
"We are rolling out this patch today + 4 days - it's already on this test server, test your services"
Good Software Team:
"Ok, cool, we'll test it"


Bad Hardware Team:
"..." *patches box*
Any Software Team:
"WTF did you do to the server? Our service isn't running anymore!"

so true

must have a Bad Hardware Team!

[Moscow Mule]

and I do have to point out that maybe it would be useful if the server team talked to the software team once in a while instead of trying to pass the blame between them selves

honestly no one really cares just make it work........

Good Hardware Team:
"We are rolling out this patch today + 4 days - it's already on this test server, test your services"
Good Software Team:
"Ok, cool, we'll test it"


Bad Hardware Team:
"..." *patches box*
Any Software Team:
"WTF did you do to the server? Our service isn't running anymore!"

[Julius Caesar]

If you want your software services to work, you should contact the software team, not the hardware team - who are correct when they say their server is working.

Sums it up, doesn't it? "The techies".