Reply to: Flipping Agents!!!! Rant alert!!!!

[Hawkeye]

It's because agencies ring them up persistently and eventually they cave in. If you were a company that really had no idea where to start, then agencies will probably do a better job of getting somebody in through the door. But once you've got 1 or 2 people on your team who know what they need, you're better off without them.

RichardCranium's analysis of the situation is very good, and it's a shame fewer companies get round to costing up the saved effort and thinking "Is that really worth 20% of contract rate/30% of first year salary?"

It would be interesting to see how they do cost it up in a larger company bearing in mind that most larger companies I have worked for have a huge HR department that deal with all of the agencies and CV's.

See my current client is very small and when I took time out to review CV's everything pretty much came to a standstill and my work just started backing up.

[Hawkeye]

Because they like paying 90 days in arrears, and most contractors won't accept that? Because they don't like having different contracts and terms with every single contractor? Because paying one bill to an agency is easier than paying 10 different people? Because they can more easily sue the agency for their money if it goes wrong?

Ah OK. Basically companies pass on the risk. Between yours and Richard's post it seems that the overall benefits then will outweigh the costs. I suppose my dislike and frustration with recruitment consultants makes me blind to the actual benefits of them.

I guess I need to pull together a list of preferred suppliers for agencies going forward. Might also need to get a contract lawyer to check the t's & c's with each as it would probably then be a less risky strategy than taking contractors on directly in this case.

Thanks

[thunderlizard]

I still do not get why companies use agencies.

It's because agencies ring them up persistently and eventually they cave in. If you were a company that really had no idea where to start, then agencies will probably do a better job of getting somebody in through the door. But once you've got 1 or 2 people on your team who know what they need, you're better off without them.

RichardCranium's analysis of the situation is very good, and it's a shame fewer companies get round to costing up the saved effort and thinking "Is that really worth 20% of contract rate/30% of first year salary?"

[d000hg]

the point is, they agree to 15% and sign stuff till the cows come home. They still rip both sides off.

It's only when the client speaks to the contractor that the truth emerges

So, get it it writing that the agency will take no more than 15%. Then take someone they provide. Then sue them and tell all the papers etc.

[d000hg]

I still do not get why companies use agencies

Because they like paying 90 days in arrears, and most contractors won't accept that? Because they don't like having different contracts and terms with every single contractor? Because paying one bill to an agency is easier than paying 10 different people? Because they can more easily sue the agency for their money if it goes wrong?

[Hawkeye]

Fair point Richard. I do think if the contractor is not good enough I might still be blamed but will see. I did get 10 CV's from the agent so there was a fair bit of work and majority were awful.

Scootercot that is my agent!

[scooterscot]

It's the agents who call me salivating over the mouth piece spending there commission before I've signed anything that really get on my goat... the ones that make no attempt to hide that they are only interested in profit.... I've a picture of my last agent here.

I had one on the phone a few weeks ago whose exact words were "quar imagine getting that in your account every week"

[RichardCranium]

I still do not get why companies use agencies. My ideal way would be to advertise via other means and review CV's myself.

Because:
- advertising for roles is expensive;
- you will be inundated with hundreds of CVs from people that cannot do the job but would like to think they can;
- you will be inundated with applications from every unemployed person in the area;
- your ad is unlikely to be seen by anyone on CUK as we're all using the likes of Jobserve.

You are thinking of this:

Contractor @ £300 / day where the agent gets £60 of that x 100 days = £30,000

versus

Contractor direct @ £250 / day x 100 days = £25,000

which is incorrect. You need to think like a permie:

Contractor @ agent-claims-market-rate / day = £whatever as it isn't my budget
+ having to choose from 3 reasonably OK CVs
+ free lunch from agent

versus

Contractor @ rate-is-my-choosing-therefore-my-fault / day = £my arse on the line
+ having to write an advert
+ advert cost comes from MY budget
+ no free lunch
+ sifting through hundreds of applications
+ the 'phone won't stop ringing

Now which is the obvious choice?

[Troll]

I think client co has learned their lesson now and wants me to read the new contract and check all the t's & c's before we sign anything.

I still do not get why companies use agencies. My ideal way would be to advertise via other means and review CV's myself. It was fairly annoying that they did manage to send in one stunning CV and I am positive it was picked at random as they knew nothing about this guy.

Can I send you my C.V. direct?

btw do you like gladiator movies?

[Hawkeye]

I think client co has learned their lesson now and wants me to read the new contract and check all the t's & c's before we sign anything.

I still do not get why companies use agencies. My ideal way would be to advertise via other means and review CV's myself. It was fairly annoying that they did manage to send in one stunning CV and I am positive it was picked at random as they knew nothing about this guy.

[Spacecadet]

Basically we owe this agency money as a few months back there was a contractor taken on but he was fired for quite a few reasons which I won't go into. I was allowed to get a contractor but it had to be through this agency as there was an agreement made with the agent that we would get a replacement for him through them to cover the contract we had with them.

I was forced to use them this time but in the future it will be different.

so agency gets you a contractor who for one reason or another is so crap that you have to fire them
And then you have to go back to the same agency because it lost them money?

HOW THE **** DOES THAT WORK? if they sent you a decent contractor in the first place i.e. did their ******* job then they wouldn't be loosing money on the contract

******* theiving agency scum

[Addanc]

I cannot stand some recruitment consultants!

I asked them to advertise the role at x and said they can only take a maximum of 15% cut in this instance. I get home and there is an email in my personal inbox as I am signed up with that agency advertising the role at a much lower rate with them then getting a 40% cut!

Obviously we had words about this. Contractor starts yesterday and we start discussing rates. The contractor did not say what he was getting so fair enough. I get a call late last night from the agency having a fit saying that the contractor wants more and that because of me he is eating away at their 30% cut!! I got so annoyed I told them to call the contractor and say not to come in on Monday as we did not sign and agree the contract yet. 5 minutes later they phone me apologising saying he will be there on Monday.

Ruined my night really as I hate dealing with them. Makes me sick that they think they can shaft my client (who is a charity) and the contractor we are employing then act as if I am the evil one!

Glad it is off my chest!

Simple solution, don't use agencies.

[TheFaQQer]

Valid till 31 December 2008 no doubt.

Or only valid for purchases of hair gel?

[Clippy]

The agent was not bright. I told him I was a contractor so he should have known better. Plus I also said that this won't be the only contractor I will be taking on so he had a good chance to impress and become a supplier. Hey ho!

Did I mention he tried to bribe me when I told him about the advert stating a lower rate than I agreed with him. He emailed me a 20% Selfridges discount voucher.

Valid till 31 December 2008 no doubt.

[NickFitz]

Well done!

I hope you're keeping the voucher