Reply to: CUK Speed

[DimPrawn]

Definitely one of the hard drives on the way out. Can't get swapped out immediately as have newsletter going out shortly, fingers crossed will be sorted late this afternoon or maybe in the morning.

Next time, please turn off your webcam.

http://www.1201.com/blog/image.axd?p...nal-poster.jpg

[administrator]

Definitely one of the hard drives on the way out. Can't get swapped out immediately as have newsletter going out shortly, fingers crossed will be sorted late this afternoon or maybe in the morning.

[gingerjedi]

Wotappened?

CUK has been in a the wormhole http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8404991.stm

[RichardCranium]

Wotappened?

[NickFitz]

Hmmm - Interesting. I'm using the "standard" browser that comes with Symbian - I was using Opera Mini, but it doesn't seem to be able to cope with a connection that occasionally drops back to 2g (or whatever 3g becomes when it drops back) - I am in a room with no windows at Clientco.

Hmm... Opera are normally pretty good at this kind of thing (it's their primary market).

Then again, Opera Mini is itself rather strange: it actually makes all requests through Opera's own proxy servers. These then retrieve the content and apply all kinds of wonderful tricks, analysing the HTML and compressing the images, so as to finally serve up something that is equivalent to the original page, but much smaller (== quicker), optimised for your device, and definitely not the same as the original. In fact, it's an image of the page rather than HTML.

This strategy usually works well. I know that forms are one of the trickiest things they have to deal with though. It could be something to do with it trying to get the additional info about the page so it can emulate the form; I seem to remember reading something in one of their developer's blogs about the way it has to transition from displaying an image of the page to emulating the form it never sent when the user starts to interact with the form, and maybe a slow connection is interfering with that.

Next time I see any of the Opera mob I'll ask them (although unfortunately the ones I know aren't actually browser developers, they're web standards evangelists).

EDIT: and I've just realised that you aren't using Opera Mini anymore, you're on the Symbian browser. I should read things properly before I reply

If I can't find anything in his published tests I'll ping ppk and see if he's come across this kind of behaviour; I'm not sure it's in his remit from Vodafone, but he might have some ideas.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

Weird, but phones can be weird - my friend ppk is currently doing a ridiculous number of tests of mobile browsers (funded by Vodafone), and some of the behaviour he's identified is unutterably strange

It could even be something as wrong as the browser laying out the page, then having a script file arrive and laying out the page again in case the script does any document.write()ing. All browsers made for more traditional environments (including recent phone browsers rooted in desktop browsers, such as Safari on iPhone and Chrome on Android) delay layout while scripts are pending for that reason, but mobile browsers are often written by people who seem to think they can make optimisations where they can't, because they don't understand the complex business of making browsers that actually work in TRW.

They mean well, but in the end they cause more fail than win; existing browsers do things that way for a number of reasons, and if said mobile browser creators took the time to understand such reasons when writing their browsers they'd realise that sometimes it makes more sense to keep the user waiting a few seconds (annoying as that is) rather than offering the user something straight away and then having to snatch it back (which is even more annoying).

Hmmm - Interesting. I'm using the "standard" browser that comes with Symbian - I was using Opera Mini, but it doesn't seem to be able to cope with a connection that occasionally drops back to 2g (or whatever 3g becomes when it drops back) - I am in a room with no windows at Clientco.

[NickFitz]

I'm not an expert like Nick, but I do notice that when I access it on my phone, if it's a particularly slow connection, it appears to load each page, and then load it again. I have always wondered why this is. It can be a pain when posting a reply as one can get half way through and then find the system is reloading and the post has gone.

Weird, but phones can be weird - my friend ppk is currently doing a ridiculous number of tests of mobile browsers (funded by Vodafone), and some of the behaviour he's identified is unutterably strange

It could even be something as wrong as the browser laying out the page, then having a script file arrive and laying out the page again in case the script does any document.write()ing. All browsers made for more traditional environments (including recent phone browsers rooted in desktop browsers, such as Safari on iPhone and Chrome on Android) delay layout while scripts are pending for that reason, but mobile browsers are often written by people who seem to think they can make optimisations where they can't, because they don't understand the complex business of making browsers that actually work in TRW.

They mean well, but in the end they cause more fail than win; existing browsers do things that way for a number of reasons, and if said mobile browser creators took the time to understand such reasons when writing their browsers they'd realise that sometimes it makes more sense to keep the user waiting a few seconds (annoying as that is) rather than offering the user something straight away and then having to snatch it back (which is even more annoying).

[NickFitz]

...10KB

Oops, I have fail

It's around 5,834 bytes - even so, that's around 5,834 bytes for every single hit on every single page (including when Google et al. come to visit)

[Peoplesoft bloke]

I'm not an expert like Nick, but I do notice that when I access it on my phone, if it's a particularly slow connection, it appears to load each page, and then load it again. I have always wondered why this is. It can be a pain when posting a reply as one can get half way through and then find the system is reloading and the post has gone.

[NickFitz]

Nick - thanks for the GA spot, will move it now and see if it helps your phone access.

Thanks Admin

It was only when I was looking at the source the other week that I realised why I so often got the logo followed by a loooong wait...

Next on the list: I don't know if it works with your templates, but I believe there's something in the vB admin's control panel that shifts the CSS into an external file brought in via a <link>, rather than it being inline in a <style> element. That will knock something like 10KB off every single page served, IIRC.

The first time a user (more accurately, the first time a given installation of a browser used by that user on a given system) accesses a page with the new set-up they'll incur an additional HTTP request resulting in a 10KB download of a separate file, but after that each such request should return a Not Modified response (if the vB people have done things right - hmm, major caveat there) and the 10 KB of CSS will come from the user's browser cache. End result: one more HTTP request per page (although, unlike a script tag, it doesn't stall the browser under normal circumstances), but in the vast majority of cases 10KB is shaved off the page, and the time for the additional HTTP request/response cycle is elided into the time the browser takes to render the page anyway

[administrator]

Cheers Zippy, I know the HD needs sorting as soon as problems spotted, double disk failure would be painful! New disk will be in shortly I am sure. I am not going to mention back ups as when they are mentioned things go wrong so I am saying nothing...

Nick - thanks for the GA spot, will move it now and see if it helps your phone access.

[suityou01]

We really do need TPD back up.

This place is full of petty bitching, backbiting, sniping and so on, including from people who are renowned for being calm (two in particular spring to mind and they have even bickered between themselves). The negative vibes are building up and the good karma is right down.

Peace, harmony and TPD, people.

... go on

[RichardCranium]

We really do need TPD back up.

This place is full of petty bitching, backbiting, sniping and so on, including from people who are renowned for being calm (two in particular spring to mind and they have even bickered between themselves). The negative vibes are building up and the good karma is right down.


Just admit it folks, it is only the luurve and hugs emanating from TPD that keeps this place of social inadequates together. We need more caring, more sharing. We need openness and generosity. We need to be giving the warmth and feeling the passion.

Peace, harmony and TPD, people.

[suityou01]

Before I completly lost my mind and specialised in software, I used to get paid for dealing with hardware problems. I was trying to be polite. But I'm sure you knew that young fella me lad

And you were. Sorry.

[NickFitz]

Think the server has a dodgy disk too

Here's hoping your backup strategy is sound. Otherwise the only thing left of the CUK forums will be my copy of TPD