Reply to: Prince2 Practioner

[PM-Junkie]

PRINCE2 is a useful collection of tools for a newbie PM. However, it takes a few years' experience to know how to apply it.

I like the Business Case philosophy, the Project Board structure, the Risk & Issue Management and I am a complete convert to Product Based Planning.

But knowing how much to apply, and when, takes experience.

And, as you suggest, that is not project management. People have problems, not projects. PRINCE2 covers the mechanics of project management but does not address people issues at all.

Absolutely. Almost every "Top Ten Reasons Why Projects Fail" list misses out Reason 0: an incompetent project manager.

Actually, in my days as a PM I found the biggest risk to a project's success was incompetence or naivety in the levels above the PM. If the PM is worth their fee, there are ways around it...but if the PM is a gimp as well then the whole thing is doomed.

In my experience incompetent PMs (and sadly there are a lot of those) merely expose silly decisions/standards/practice above them. A PM who understands the technology that's being used/deployed...knows how to manage upwards as well as downwards...and has the gravitas to stand up to idiots and keep stakeholders from pestering the troops, is worth his/her weight in gold (and as an aside, the best PM I've ever come across was of the female persuasion).

And to the person who said the PMI standard is better than PRINCE2 - the two are different (one can be called a standard, one is a framework) and can actually go together, but I agree. Although not many PMPs are audited....so I suspect there are lots of incompetent PMP people out there too. What I do like about the PMP though is that it only lasts 3 years and you have to extend your knowledge to keep it...not just sit another silly test like you do with PRINCE2. For that reason alone I always prefer 3 year+ PMPs over newly hatched PMPs and PRINCEs

At the end of the day though, running a project is common sense....it certainly isn't rocket science. It always beats me why so many people are so carp at it!

[jgohilfb]

Congratulations!!!

Did you sit for the Prince2 2009 Foundation Practitioner course or Prince2 2005? Apparently the pass rate of Prince2 2009 is not as high as the 2005 one.

[veerarish]

Got the results last night through email and wooho...Passed the practioner.

I am throughly chuffed with myself about utilising the october bench period to pass Prince2 Practioner through self study...


Now to tackle the real crunch of breaking into Project management,moving away from Technical Consultancy roles....

Hi valluvan,

Congrats!!!

I have booked the practitioner exam next month.Any tips for passing this exam.
I am going through the manual.Other than that I am not finding much resources on net.

[RichardCranium]

PRINCE2 is a complete waste of time. Sorry. Being a PM has nothing to do with memorising a collection of useless and irrelevant information

PRINCE2 is a useful collection of tools for a newbie PM. However, it takes a few years' experience to know how to apply it.

I like the Business Case philosophy, the Project Board structure, the Risk & Issue Management and I am a complete convert to Product Based Planning.

But knowing how much to apply, and when, takes experience.

And, as you suggest, that is not project management. People have problems, not projects. PRINCE2 covers the mechanics of project management but does not address people issues at all.

Single biggest risk to any project, and frustration to all working on such projects are wannabe PM's and / or someone bull******* about their 'experience'.

Absolutely. Almost every "Top Ten Reasons Why Projects Fail" list misses out Reason 0: an incompetent project manager.

[Naaarwich]

Was that under the essay style format or the 2009 multiple-ticking regime?

I did mine in early 2008 and it was the multiple choice. Early this year they have updated Prince2.

Its a shame PMI isn't widely used in this country as I think their model is better - you have to have at least 5000 hours of verified PM experience before you can even sit the exam and also the exam tests you on your PM skills and not just on processes as Prince2 does.

[original PM]

What an utter pile of crap.

Take it you disagree then?

[thunderlizard]

When we sat the Practitioner exam not one of us even had time to open the 'Managing Successful Projects' manual let alone leave early.

Was that under the essay style format or the 2009 multiple-ticking regime?

[Svalbaard]

PRINCE2

The art of writing reports about why all of your projects fail.

What an utter pile of crap.

[George Parr]

That's why I did the last of the v2 Manager's Certificate -around the same time that you were saying to me that "I don't need the paper -I've got the experience".

It's called 'playing the game' Mal.

Don't be so proud next time I suggest something...

WSS

You need both. Exams are much harder to lie about than experience. Given the massively oversupplied market, clients will choose qualifications and experience, they'd be fools not to.

Yes, it does line the pockets of training providers but life isn't always fair.

[cojak]

Agreed, you can always learn something. It does grate, though, that I've delivered various multi-million pound programmes and still get asked if I'm qualified... I learned the original PRINCE back in the 80s as part of a career development programme, so never actually got an accreditation. Really can't be bothered to try and get one now, especially since you can pass it without ever having delivered anything.

As for building the income of the training companies - nobody will ever persuade me you need three layers of exam passes costing around £6k to get an ITIL Managers certificate under v3...

That's why I did the last of the v2 Manager's Certificate -around the same time that you were saying to me that "I don't need the paper -I've got the experience".

It's called 'playing the game' Mal.

Don't be so proud next time I suggest something...

[original PM]

PRINCE2

The art of writing reports about why all of your projects fail.

[Naaarwich]

When I sat my Foundation exam most of the candidates finished early and all passed. When we sat the Practitioner exam not one of us even had time to open the 'Managing Successful Projects' manual let alone leave early.

I did notice that the two candidates with the highest Foundation scores were the ones who had no experience in project management and had virtually no people skills - I'm sure they're running projects in the civil service right now - budget and time-scales blown and the only thing they're likely to deliver are well written Exception Reports.

[Francko]

Single biggest risk to any project, and frustration to all working on such projects are wannabe PM's and / or someone bull******* about their 'experience'.

Unfortunately the most of them were technical people who would be out of the job now because of higher competition. I blame the .com bubble.

[TykeMerc]

As for building the income of the training companies - nobody will ever persuade me you need three layers of exam passes costing around £6k to get an ITIL Managers certificate under v3...

Indeed, I've considered doing ITIL certs, but I'm damned if I'm going to shell out that much. I've done enough Service Delivery over the years it wouldn't hurt to have the cert and to pick up the bits that I'm bound to have missed.

[malvolio]

Agreed, you can always learn something. It does grate, though, that I've delivered various multi-million pound programmes and still get asked if I'm qualified... I learned the original PRINCE back in the 80s as part of a career development programme, so never actually got an accreditation. Really can't be bothered to try and get one now, especially since you can pass it without ever having delivered anything.

As for building the income of the training companies - nobody will ever persuade me you need three layers of exam passes costing around £6k to get an ITIL Managers certificate under v3...