Reply to: HR Departments

[DodgyAgent]

But whats in it for HR for using you in addition to their existing suppliers? From their point of view you are just another avenue to the same big pool of resources on jobserve. I know the difference may be some margin or some good relationships, but if they have suppleirs they already trust, why would they take a risk on using you? What's your unique selling point?

Fair point. I have on three occasions won the approval of "the business" because I have candidates that no one else has, and they have been looking for these skills for a long time. The "business" have asked me to contact HR and set up the right channels. On each occasion I have eventually had to turn back to the business in order that they kick the arses of the HR people. In each instance when (eventually) they have deigned to contact me they have barely been able to contain their irritation.

If a business is finding its people through its existing means/suppliers then there is no reason on this planet why DA enterprises needs to be called in.

[JoJoGabor]

But whats in it for HR for using you in addition to their existing suppliers? From their point of view you are just another avenue to the same big pool of resources on jobserve. I know the difference may be some margin or some good relationships, but if they have suppleirs they already trust, why would they take a risk on using you? What's your unique selling point?

[DodgyAgent]

Good to hear from you Dodgy. Hope you are making ends meet without showing too many of your staff the bench.

OH I havent fired anyone yet, though contractor margins and numbers are down,

any leads gratefully accepted (or as most agents would say- give me your references in order that I can check you out before I put you up for some of the many high paying top jobs that I have exclusive rights to. Also let me know who you have had interviews with already just so as I know where NOT to market you )

[OrangeHopper]

Good to hear from you Dodgy. Hope you are making ends meet without showing too many of your staff the bench.

[DodgyAgent]

you don't want to be on the PSL here DA, they'll force you onto a very low margin. What is the break even point for an agent in terms of margin would you say. Mine is on 10% and bleats about it.

2% is about break even on running a contract. 10%! and I'll bite your arm off!

[hyperD]

you don't want to be on the PSL here DA, they'll force you onto a very low margin. What is the break even point for an agent in terms of margin would you say. Mine tells me he is on 10% and bleats about it.

jftfy

[singhr]

you don't want to be on the PSL here DA, they'll force you onto a very low margin. What is the break even point for an agent in terms of margin would you say. Mine is on 10% and bleats about it.

[Peoplesoft bloke]

HR should be closed down in most companies. Wish you could trust agents to tell the truth about being the PS though.

[TheFaQQer]

Sounds like Dodgy's PSL list is much the same as SC for those looking for contracts.

You need to be on the list
How do I get on the list?
We put you on it
Can you put me on the list please?
No, only people on the list can go on the list

When I was permie, I had to deal with one agent (who I now deal with as a contractor ) on behalf of my boss who hated the guy.

Agent: Can I speak to Boss, please? It's G from XYZ recruitment.
Me: As he's explained, he can't deal with you because you aren't on the PSL.
Agent: Ah - can you get me on the PSL.
Me: Sorry.
Agent: Who do I need to speak to to get on the PSL?
Me: That would be Boss.
Agent: Can I speak to him?
Me: No, he can't deal with you because you aren't on the PSL

[ctdctd]

Sounds like Dodgy's PSL list is much the same as SC for those looking for contracts.

You need to be on the list
How do I get on the list?
We put you on it
Can you put me on the list please?
No, only people on the list can go on the list

[DimPrawn]

PSL



PMSL

[DodgyAgent]

Dodgy old chap,

Have you not thought about trying to get on the PSL in the first place? If you are just sniping round the edges trying to get business you will just end up annoying people. Companies do not want to do business on recruitment agencies terms, because frankly, they take the piss. You might have got away with it a few years ago when people cared less but not now....

Also - procurement tend to own the supplier contracts in larger organisations, you'll probably get more sense out of them than HR/recruiters, they tend to be more focused on the process of recruiting.

The only agencies that have the resources to go through the tendering process for this sort of stuff are the big agencies.

there is a skill here () which is prising a problem out of a manager to a point where you can convince him to use you. If the internal mechanism has failed to yield the candidate that is needed then this is the best way of getting onto a PSL albeit by the backdoor.

I dont have a problem with a PSL at all. If a manager says to me he they have one in place then that is fine. If the manager says to me that he has a pressing need that means he can go outside of the PSL then that is what I am chasing.

I am not approaching people as "his new account manager" who "happens to be in the area". I am finding people with problems (not the sort that we find on this website though)


My point is that PSLs are being exploited by people with different agendas.

[NotAllThere]

...It has now become a blunt instrument to keep EVERYONE out and to serve and protect those who manage it.

Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy states that in any bureaucratic organization there will be two kinds of people: those who work to further the actual goals of the organization, and those who work for the organization itself. Examples in education would be teachers who work and sacrifice to teach children, vs. union representative who work to protect any teacher including the most incompetent. The Iron Law states that in all cases, the second type of person will always gain control of the organization, and will always write the rules under which the organization functions.

[shaunbhoy]

Why would you work in HR unless you had no talent in anything useful?

You wouldn't.

HTH

[interested]

Hi all. I have been too busy trying to drum up business, no time to indulge myself in shooting socialists and "prattractors" on this site . My phone is worn out so I am taking a little time to return to this board with a major gripe.

I have never done so much cold calling as I have done over the past few months. One thing I have learnt is to not pitch to HR/recruitment or shared services unless you are in for the long haul.

To begin with HR/shared services/recruitment departments have become impregnable fortresses who's main objective is not to serve their internal managers but more importantly to keep us dreaded agencies away or put us in our place. Add the fact they also have a monopoly on their company's recruitment business they are mostly completely out of touch with the real world.

Whilst it may be entirely desirable to keep us agents at bay they are now locked into a completely defensive mindset that must surely have an adverse effect on genuine candidates as well on their own performances.

The PSL has now become a defence mechanism that is trotted out at the slightest hint of you being an agent. I have long decided that it is a complete waste of time engaging anyone who has nothing better to say than "we have a PSL"

The good news is that it has dished out a lesson to us recruiters which is that we need to go to the business in order to discover if there are genuine recruitment needs. It is now much easier to get to speak to a board director of a FTSE 250 company than it is to a low level recruitment manager hiding behind a voicemail. Pitching on a voicemail is a total waste of time. Ultimately if you have the solution to a problem no company will allow itself to place the PSL ahead of its business needs.

The ray of hope is that these people are rarely popular amongst the hiring fraternity, and because they have a monopoly they are bound to try to dumb down their internal customers expectations to the level of their own competence. There will always be a "chink" of an opportunity

What is also alarming is the number of ex recruitment agency staff that they employ who are using their position of power to kick back at the industry that they failed in.. not all but some.

The lesson is to make and keep those contacts that you have made over the years.

Back to the phone for me

Dodgy old chap,

Have you not thought about trying to get on the PSL in the first place? If you are just sniping round the edges trying to get business you will just end up annoying people. Companies do not want to do business on recruitment agencies terms, because frankly, they take the piss. You might have got away with it a few years ago when people cared less but not now....

Also - procurement tend to own the supplier contracts in larger organisations, you'll probably get more sense out of them than HR/recruiters, they tend to be more focused on the process of recruiting.