Reply to: I am still umming and ahhing about perm and contract offers. HELP

[mace]

Yes and therein is the dilema. On paper the contracting looks better and if I am honest the role is better.

BUT what I do not know is whether I take the perm role now for three years and then do contracting!!

Is moving from contrcting to perm harder then the other way round

you are right. It is java and finance

Go contracting. Moving back to a perm role is difficult when we're heading towards the trough, easy when we're heading out of it. Benefits of contracting is that you typically do less hours for more money. Disadvantages are that you tend to be doing the stuff permies don't want to do/can't do/are project related so are short lived. At your age, you need money, mate.

[ChimpMaster]

Go contracting in your late 20s/early 30s, because if you're much younger you're only going to p1ss all that money away. As you get older and wiser you are willing to take on more responsibility (running a Ltd Co) and you haev more of a grip on finances and saving for the future.

I've know many contractors who started young - in their early 20s - and spent it all on women and cars and renting flash places in the city. No doubt fun but not really taking advantage of contracting income.

There are exceptions of course and I'm sure some of them are here on CUK. Personally had I been a contractor in my 20s I would have blown it all away.

[joey122]

You called it earlier, it's a troll.

Call it what you like. I call it uncertainty and doing due dillignce

what is wrong with that

[joey122]

Ok, maybe I'm completely off the mark here but just so I understand this properly....

You quit a 60-65K a year job in Banking (something to do with financial derivatives and Java I guess ?) to go contracting because you didn't like it.

You then get offered a 12 month contract @ £400 which you paid to have reviewed by both SJD and QDos and it's outside IR35, which you've read up on.

You've told other people that it's a no brainer and to take the contract.

BUT you're still not sure whether to take it as it's all very complicated especially factoring whether you need to take photos of your car claim the petrol.

Yes and therein is the dilema. On paper the contracting looks better and if I am honest the role is better.

BUT what I do not know is whether I take the perm role now for three years and then do contracting!!

Is moving from contrcting to perm harder then the other way round

you are right. It is java and finance

[Clippy]

Ok, maybe I'm completely off the mark here but just so I understand this properly....

You quit a 60-65K a year job in Banking (something to do with financial derivatives and Java I guess ?) to go contracting because you didn't like it.

You then get offered a 12 month contract @ £400 which you paid to have reviewed by both SJD and QDos and it's outside IR35, which you've read up on.

You've told other people that it's a no brainer and to take the contract.

BUT you're still not sure whether to take it as it's all very complicated especially factoring whether you need to take photos of your car claim the petrol.

You called it earlier, it's a troll.

[Pondlife]

No this is not trolling at all. When I wrote that it was what I was thinking at the time

Now I actually have to sign a contract and make a decision I am not so sure

What's wrong with someone thinking things through thoroughly and asking more experienced people for advice??

Why is every poster accused of sockpuppiting or trolling??

Ok, maybe I'm completely off the mark here but just so I understand this properly....

You quit a 60-65K a year job in Banking (something to do with financial derivatives and Java I guess ?) to go contracting because you didn't like it.

You then get offered a 12 month contract @ £400 which you paid to have reviewed by both SJD and QDos and it's outside IR35, which you've read up on.

You've told other people that it's a no brainer and to take the contract.

BUT you're still not sure whether to take it as it's all very complicated especially factoring whether you need to take photos of your car claim the petrol.

[EternalOptimist]

and not wanting to live away from home.

too right.
and being forced to live on ten pints and a kebab every night

its hard to bear

[mace]

Thank you. This is very helpful. I have one final question in that case

WHY WOULD ANYONE BE PERMIE IN THAT CASE WHEN IN LATE TWENTIES??

It's not more secure and even accounting for holiday and bmefits the tax benefits far outweigh permie life

so i cannot understand why people work as perms???? Please help me tie this off and I will be in a position to make a decision

it seems almost an arbitrage opportunity here in favour of contracting

People that remain permie in their late 20s usually don't have great technical skills, so wouldn't be able to survive as contractors. Some have good people skills, however, so have made some progress up the greasy pole and think that the future's bright. I feel they're being naive. An IT director probably averages £100k per year base, a development manager - £70k, a manager - £60k. It takes a great deal of luck to make it to the IT director level and even more luck to stay there. The lesser roles pay less than a good contractor could expect to make. Other reasons for being a "permie" may include having a family and/or living in a location which doesn't have great contracting opportunities and not wanting to live away from home.

[Dearnla]

People that do perm jobs do so for a number of reasons, such as not having skills that are in demand as contractors, not having the bottle or nous to go contracting or the deemed security/benefits of permiedom.

I realised that contracting was the way to go for me when my last two permie jobs were 15 months and 21 months, and I kept having to employ contractors 'cos I couldn't get any one interested in the feeble wages or go through the stupid "incompetency based" interviews that HR demanded.

The attractions were obvious, but then I'm an old fart with the experience and confidence to do it....

[joey122]

Thanks for your input joey.

Graduate: 21
Junior Permie: til 23
Contractor: til 35
Senior Permie: 35+ (and take contracts if you get laid off).

A lot of IT permie roles are, in reality, temporary roles and/or you have to work your nuts off for years before getting promoted. Accept these when the companies are less interested in you i.e. 35+

Take a glance at linkedin for the job title that you're interested in for the location you live in and check out how long most people with that job title stay in their jobs. You'll find out not long, it's hardly a career nowadays, hence recommend contracting until 35. By then you'll have got hacked off being a coding monkey and getting the push every year or so, and will be wanting something more stable and interesting.

If you're 26 then you need to make some money. If you do it for 9 years and live like you were on a permie wage, you should easily be able to stash away half a mill. Then go back to permiedom during the boom period - check old.jobstats.co.uk for cycles. e.g. if you were in your mid-30s now, I'd wait about 18 months and then try to get back in to permiedom, should be easy then.

Thank you. This is very helpful. I have one final question in that case

WHY WOULD ANYONE BE PERMIE IN THAT CASE WHEN IN LATE TWENTIES??

It's not more secure and even accounting for holiday and bmefits the tax benefits far outweigh permie life

so i cannot understand why people work as perms???? Please help me tie this off and I will be in a position to make a decision

it seems almost an arbitrage opportunity here in favour of contracting

[mace]

My recommendation

Graduate: 21
Junior Permie: til 23
Contractor: til 35
Senior Permie: 35+ (and take contracts if you get laid off).

A lot of IT permie roles are, in reality, temporary roles and/or you have to work your nuts off for years before getting promoted. Accept these when the companies are less interested in you i.e. 35+

Take a glance at linkedin for the job title that you're interested in for the location you live in and check out how long most people with that job title stay in their jobs. You'll find out not long, it's hardly a career nowadays, hence recommend contracting until 35. By then you'll have got hacked off being a coding monkey and getting the push every year or so, and will be wanting something more stable and interesting.

If you're 26 then you need to make some money. If you do it for 9 years and live like you were on a permie wage, you should easily be able to stash away half a mill. Then go back to permiedom during the boom period - check old.jobstats.co.uk for cycles. e.g. if you were in your mid-30s now, I'd wait about 18 months and then try to get back in to permiedom, should be easy then.

[EternalOptimist]

The thought of EO being flattened as a pancake by some fat northern lass
doesn't bear thinking about.

oi stop torkin about my bird like that. If it wern't for Sally I wouldnt have know what to get the kids for Christmas last year

[joey122]

Thanks for your input joey.

No this is not trolling at all. When I wrote that it was what I was thinking at the time

Now I actually have to sign a contract and make a decision I am not so sure

What's wrong with someone thinking things through thoroughly and asking more experienced people for advice??

Why is every poster accused of sockpuppiting or trolling??

[Bright Spark]

There some images I never needed

The thought of EO being flattened as a pancake by some fat northern lass
doesn't bear thinking about.

[original PM]

Thats no way to speak to an old sweat. Now come and sit on my knee and we'll talk about the first thing that comes up

There some images I never needed