Reply to: 28,000 ? brought in via ICTs

[Sean Key]

28,000 was last year alone

Assuming that they do all go home at the end of two years then it would look like around 50,000 are here at the moment? Having said that, the 28,000 is from 2008, so that 28,000 would pre-date BT and Lloyds outsourcing I imagine. If this loophole isn't closed off sharpish there could be a sharp increase.

For the record I think the PCG have been doing well more recently fighting this, there is some detailed input from them into the latest Home Office Select Committee report into Migration. From what I've read of that it looks like the Migration Advisory Committee has been asked to consider closing down or modifying the ICT route as a result of that.

The petition remains here (now with >140 signatures) if anyone else feels like signing up.

I'm chasing 500 so any help with spreading the word woild be really appreciated.

http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/Abolish-ICTs/

[DimPrawn]

Are those shares and can you invest in them using a regular on-line banking share dealing service?

Yes. You can use Fidelity fund supermarket or self trade, etc. They are managed funds not shares.

[TimberWolf]

Buy an India fund and put all your money into it. If the offshoring continues to boom you are quids in, if it falls flat on it's arse, you pick up a nice contract in the UK and earn it all back again. Win win.

E.g. http://uk.moneycentral.msn.com/inves...ol=GB%3A083699

Are those shares and can you invest in them using a regular on-line banking share dealing service?

[DimPrawn]

The IT industry in the UK has been in decline since 2001.

Government is now joining the offshoring brigade.
Probably a few ICTs roaming the corridors of Whitehall as we speak.

Buy an India fund and put all your money into it. If the offshoring continues to boom you are quids in, if it falls flat on it's arse, you pick up a nice contract in the UK and earn it all back again. Win win.

E.g. http://uk.moneycentral.msn.com/inves...ol=GB%3A083699

[mrdonuts]

http://www.silverlinktechnologies.com/index.php

[DimPrawn]

It's good news for some businesses. Sales are booming.

http://www.cashandcarrion.co.uk/fram...%20Tee%20White

[HairyArsedBloke]

The IT industry in the UK has been in decline since 2001.

Government is now joining the offshoring brigade.
Probably a few ICTs roaming the corridors of Whitehall as we speak.

All 'savings' should be deducted from the foreign aid budget in full.

[Iron Condor]

The IT industry in the UK has been in decline since 2001.

Government is now joining the offshoring brigade.
Probably a few ICTs roaming the corridors of Whitehall as we speak.

After years of resistance to offshoring, the need to slash billions of pounds from public spending could see Whitehall looking to send IT work abroad.

While offshoring is commonplace in the private sector, the public sector has so far shied away from the practice - in part due to wariness of a backlash against sending jobs overseas - even though its supporters insist it can significantly reduce the cost of IT projects.

Indication of a possible shift in public bodies' attitudes to offshoring came last week, however, as the British Council announced that IT jobs could move to India.

It's not the only such hint. Recently, senior civil servants in the Cabinet Office and the Ministry of Justice both told silicon.com that they are open to offshoring work such as software development.

[ookook]

Quite!

The idea, in its narrowest sense, is to allow a multinational to transfer say a skilled engineer that understands their widget-making machine from his normal place of work into the UK to install a machine over here and train people how to use it, where such work will take more than a few days. Obvioulsy there's a bit of a grey area, but the essentials are "same company", "highly skilled" and "short term" (if you want them here permanently they'll need an HSMP visa). I would venture none of the 20-odd thousand coders currently screwing up BT's output fit that category in the slightest.

I feel that pain on a daily basis.... couldn't agree more

[vetran]

Simples

Minimum wage = 2 * average + all tax paid in UK.

But it is down from 50,000 and the PCG are partially to thank for that maybe because of the fabled Tea & Biscuit sessions.

[malvolio]

I believe you have to be highly-skilled in working for plenty cheapness. This would appear to be the only criteria that matters.

Quite!

The idea, in its narrowest sense, is to allow a multinational to transfer say a skilled engineer that understands their widget-making machine from his normal place of work into the UK to install a machine over here and train people how to use it, where such work will take more than a few days. Obvioulsy there's a bit of a grey area, but the essentials are "same company", "highly skilled" and "short term" (if you want them here permanently they'll need an HSMP visa). I would venture none of the 20-odd thousand coders currently screwing up BT's output fit that category in the slightest.

[DiscoStu]

" transfer highly-skilled individuals to perform specific and necessary tasks that require detailed company knowlege"


What are the criteria to meet this. Are there any criteria?

I am interested to know how you would quantify something like detialed company knowledge unless each case is dealt with on its own merits.


I have no axe to grind I am just curious as to how this is applied.

I believe you have to be highly-skilled in working for plenty cheapness. This would appear to be the only criteria that matters.

[sunnysan]

Question

" transfer highly-skilled individuals to perform specific and necessary tasks that require detailed company knowlege"


What are the criteria to meet this. Are there any criteria?

I am interested to know how you would quantify something like detialed company knowledge unless each case is dealt with on its own merits.


I have no axe to grind I am just curious as to how this is applied.

[TimberWolf]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's far too late..

WHS. IT should also not be taught in the UK any more.

[malvolio]

The process is both vaid and entriley justifiable. Where it's going wrong is BigCos onshoring any old bog-standard employee of a subisdiary to do coding or micky DBA support work. ICTs are needed to allow the transfer highly-skilled individuals to perform specific and necessary tasks that require detailed company knowlege. Of the 28k onshoreds to date, I would guess about three meet that criterion.

Also, no need for financial penalties, since the onshored worker has to be paid at local rates for the role. Most of the onshored are paid back home and get a living allowance over here, so they not only blow the wages rule, they pay no tax here either.

The rules are right, the abuses aren't. That's what we're fighting against.